Hey Hemi.. Instead of the traditional wooden benchwork, why not try something new. Tha arround the walls layout you are planning lends itself to styrofoam benchwork construction nicely. All you need is some shelf brackets and 2" thick extruded styrofoam (used for house insulation). This stuff is rigid enough to not need any type of wooden support, and is light enough to move when you have to. Ask JCater, I believe he is using this method.....Mike
My daughter, son in law and two kids have a 4'X8' layout with 2 inch styrafoam (can't spell). They even cut out the middle and raised it for a upper level with 1 1/2" wide strip at 2% grade from the lower to upper level. At the time I was there in Oklahoma they had no landscaping as yet but they were sure running trains. With proper support it is really solid All DCC. [ 22 April 2001: Message edited by: Telegrapher ] [ 22 April 2001: Message edited by: Telegrapher ]
I looked at your site with your around the walls plan. I think you are heading in the right direction but are at the end of the beginning and not the beginning of the end...lol. Keep it up, prepare to draw up a couple of plans until you come up with a plan you are happy with. An around the walls with duck under is the easiest to design a cope with, but I don't like duck unders at all. I mean, if we don't see many ducks using a duck under, why should we humans? I think if you go through the angst of the design process, wrestle with the angel at night, take on the goliath called compromise, you will in the end be very satisfied with your results. Eventually you'll be so proud of what you come up with, you'll be walking around strutting your stuff, boring everyone with your new picture of your baby.....lol. Keep up the struggle..pax vobiscum!
I have finished a new plan. I posted it on the web.. http://www.zing.com/picture/pf487229e5e9ba5c1fa150fdb74e307a7/fe9b4d31.jpg.orig.jpg I am thinking of the bare foam deal. MR I think,made a plan called the Wildcat Central, based on bare foam, and brackets. Sounded neat.... I could make a sturdy *read: heavy-duty* crate that the sections of benchwork foam could stack into. I also plan on building this to fit in a basement where the stairs are on one wall, and could build a structure around one edge of a step, and run trains directly thru the stairs. In fact, that would make a great way to conceal the structure: a model of the Cascade Tunnel!!!
Take a look at the Model Railroader WC project layout. It's sectional and they made wood frames for the styrofoam sections and connected with hinges. With the right brackets that would be really easy to hang on a wall.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yankinoz: Take a look at the Model Railroader WC project layout. It's sectional and they made wood frames for the styrofoam sections and connected with hinges. With the right brackets that would be really easy to hang on a wall.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The Wildcat Central, or the Wisconsin Central? I have read parts of both. I'll have to re-read it now. I think I may back my foam board up with 1/4 or 3/8" plywood, for a bit extra stability/strength. I expect to move every now and then, and it needs to be strong, a I will have to lean against it too. I think I'll fabricate my brackets out of 1x4's, and leave enough at the bottom to add a lower tool shelf, or something, and hide it with a cloth facia.
OK HemiAdda2d, I was thinking about your yard on my way home from work tonight. There was something about the lower right hand corner that was bothering me and I was trying to fit yard leads in there in my head. Fortunately, the car drivers were cooperating with me So I didn't have access to any fancy computer graphics when I got home - the wife had control of the 'puter but I had graph paper and an idea. I scanned it and then color coded it. It's not to scale and the yards are three tracks each - you can extend as space permits. check this out: At first I was thinking north bound yard (trains traveling up in this photo) as blue and south bound yard as red - it will work like that, but once I stuck engine facilities on the end of each yard I suddenly realized they could also be used as two separate yards for point to point operation the green is intermodal and the yellow could be a passenger term or your Soo interchange. (the Soo branch could drop behind the back drop or a removable building for staging.) The red yard lead would go off to your branch and lumber mill and the blue lead could be connected back to the main and a passenger station could go there too. Hope you don't mind that I did this... It was easier to draw and show then to try and describe what I was thinking. Oh, you would want a passing siding on the other side of the room so your north and south bound (or east and west - does not matter) trains can meet Cheers Rob PS - I was driving an HO freight in Melbourne this weekend and was part of my first three way meet. Fortunately we had a really long siding! Not so good for the HO scale passenger that had to wait for me but the sidings weren't long enough for the two freights edit-typo [ 25 April 2001: Message edited by: yankinoz ]
I have changed the layout yard plan somewhat. I had a good plan change iea from the last poster *thanks, Rob!* But in the interest in the KISS principle, I would rather err on the side of simplicity... Rob's plan looked good, and prototypical, but complex, and my original plan was a lot cheaper, in terms of track placement, and turnouts. As it is, the present plan is including yard tracks that vary from 4-8ft long! I think that's more than enough, and if I want, I can add a copuple single-end sidings on the plan to store LONG trains. Hemi's World
I would like to add hidden staging to my plan, but I don't know how to hide it, *and still access it when it derails!* Or, where to put it.... I thot about the opposite side of the room from the lumber mill. Whaddaya think?
One: A great place for staging is under neath the layout, but don't do L Girder as that construction technique makes for difficulty for accessing underneath. Two: When I looked at your around the room plan, it looks like you have gobs and gobs of room. You could easily build a giant layout in the shape of an E, with the top and bottom tips of the E having loops to swing the train around. And you would have a central peninsula, perhaps with a view break running down the middle to break up the layout visually and make it seem even larger yet. Three: Or you could have a letter G layout with a central peninsula, kind of crazy letter E, using even more of the room.
One of several possibilities for staging under table that reduces grade required to reach it, is a roll-out shelf with pin alignment. It is a shelf with all the switches on the end so yard tracks are in middle area. One track in, same or another out, or stub style will work. Mount on ballbearing drawer slides up to four at four foot spacing for weight, with either an anti-sway bar or cable alignment method to roll parallel. Even a double rack and pinion will work. Mount aligning pin at end of both (in & out) strokes. It is good dust protection too. I can send you a drawing. Easy to make, difficult to describe in just words.
I am finally moving into my house on base today!!!! It has a big basement, altho I haven't yt measured it. It is all concrete-walled. What should I use to attach the layout benchwork supports to the wall? They will only be 1x4 pine 'L' brackets, with a stiffener. Nothing real fancy, as it will not need to be superstrong. The basement is unfinished, tho. I can't wait to start!!!!
I've noticed recently that it automatically is believed that the optimum layout level is eye level STANDING UP. This is not necessarily true and is worth some discussion. I would consider eye level SITTING DOWN. We are all almost at the same eye level that way. It is much more comfortable to just watch trains run, and the maintanence on a sceniced layout is so much easier. I've had large layouts of both. It's no contest. Of course I'm not as young as I once was.
DanE I agree with you. My layout is 2 feet off the floor. I can sit in a chair with my legs comfortably under the layout and reach any part.
Hello Dan, welcome to trainboard I am with you, I like to be able to sit and run my railroad when I just want to watch the trains. (Must be my age)
Holy cow, I've changed the layout plan 3 times... and it's all about to change again! The basement is 22'6" sq, and I think it's gonna be very expensive to make the sort of layout I planned.. SOOO, I am going to make a 4x8-style setup. Maybe not 4x8, as the bedroom I'm going to buid in is only 10'2" x 9'6". It's small, but I can build an affordable setup in it. I like the sitting eye-level benchwork idea, and I'll use it. I can't slavage all the ideas I planned into the around the walls set, but What should I keep, and condense? I want to have a yard, intermodal ops, and a grain facility. The sawmill would be nice, too. *besides, I have 3 of those expensive MT centerbeam flats* I may use a center backdrop, and have prarie on one side, and urban constuction on the other. Ideas? I had grand plans, and ungrand funds... I hate when that happens. *is 'ungrand' even a word? *
The expense of a layout is intimidating at first and is one area where it is almost more acceptable to be "irresponsible" than not. Most of us don't calculate how much it costs to own things - its just to depressing. How much for a child, a car, eating, a mortgage, on and on. We just somehow afford it. Joe Fugate in a journal developed some formula's to layout estimating. Needless to say, the results were ...well ...depressing ...lol. There was the Soo Red Wing division that was a four by eight layout. His estimate included just about everything except lights, and backdrop. It did include benchwork, tracks and turnouts, scenery, structures, engines and rolling stock, and whatever else I have forgotten. It did not include DCC. For the one 4 x 8 the total estimated cost was $2030. Another 4 by 8 layout was $1505. Then there were two large layouts, estimated at $31,900 and $27,240; the Siskiyou Line and the Athabaska. But you have to remember that expenses in this hobby are spread out over time. If you spend $600 a year, then in ten years you have a $6000 layout, in twenty years a $12,000 layout. I am on my second dog after my first one past away years ago. I bought the first one for $25, but if you had told me it was going to cost many thousands of dollars to own that dog I probably wouldn't have taken it. I estimated that it cost close to $5000 to own my last dog when you include vet bills, food, toys, and various assunderies. But the costs were spread over 14 1/2 years. One reason layouts take forever to get up and running is expense. So you do what you can with what you have at the time. One reason not to do a 4 by 8 is that it is less recyclable than other forms of modular units. The good news is that the benchwork is amazingly inexpensive. And once the benchwork is up you will find you are motivated to keep moving forward. The estimates for the 4 x 8 benchwork was $64 each. And for the large layouts? Around $1400. My benchwork costs for a double decker is around $300 when it is all done; this in a smaller 7 x 13 room.
Hello - I know I'm chiming in a bit late on this, but I recently joined TrainBoard and am slowly making my way through the great posts here..... No person's layout is perfect for everyone, and what you choose to do has to fit what you really want to see: after building 5 or 6 layouts of my own, I've learned that the very first priority is to determine what you like most about trains and get that written down. From reviewing this thread, I think that you like to see those long trains rolling and if you back-track into a 4x8 layout you'll regret it later as you watch a 6' run, curve, 2' run, curve, 6' run curve, etc.... feel free to visit my web site at http://www.modelrailweb.com - then check the Pennsy on a Shelf layout at the Layouts page. You might find some good ideas in that layout plan, plus each module was designed for easy transport. Lastly, plan for the short and long term future: why not build a 3'x8' peninsula in the basement so you can be up and running soon, but design it to feed into an around the walls layout that you can work on over the long-haul? I have incorporated that approach on my basement empire, and my track plan(s) will be published on my site soon. HOpe this was helpful, and have fun!!!
