To some people our model trains are all toy trains. Tenshodo and Pro-Z I found to be of superior quality and Crown is improving. The new drive for the power car in the"O" series Shinkansen from Platz on first look seems to be well engineered with dual fly wheels no less and articulated drive train. So maybe it is best you tell what you consider a toy in Z scale from Japan. I do not support your theory that the Japanese can not distinguish the difference between a toy and a model. To me the ZZ gauge Bandai sets are toys, as is Playrail and Thomas cheers Garth
If you dont look behind the wallpaper, may be ok. Everything that I have seen for the moment, concerning motors, drivetrains, chassis, has no quality difference with japanese toys (not chinese). This meens not that they are unable to improve. They just value the low price. Anyway, for the price of a Dacia, you will never get a Mercedes.
Ah, now we get to the heart of the matter: you are painfully prejudiced. Consequently your remarks lack much in the way of factual information, much less objective observations. I have worked with both the Tenshodo and Märklin products fairly extensively, including complete dis-assembly, repair, adaptation and reconfiguration—a.k.a "bashing." I also have an eye for engineering design, having developed my own mechanisms. Thus I can speak knowledgeably about these products, and the remarkable thing is the Tenshodo "toys" are smooth, sure runners right out of the box. Indeed, they generally out-perform the Märklins I have. How can this be? For one thing, Märklin has not bothered to include tender pickup for their small steam locomotives—the ones that need it the most. Märklin manufactures very fine products; there is no denying this. However, their engineering approach has hardly changed in the nearly forty years they've been producing Z scale locomotives. To continue the automobile metaphor, this is akin to comparing a 1972 Mercedes with a 2010 Honda (a Dacia isn't a proper comparison since it's not Japanese). Sure, the old Mercedes is still impressively solid and precise, but it lacks the finesse and advanced touches of twenty-first century Japanese engineering. Furthermore, Tenshodo has demonstrated its ability to go toe-to-toe with Märklin in terms of cosmetics as well. Unquestionably, Märklin has some of the finest tooling, painting and finishing in the industry. But Tenshodo is not far behind, having gone so far as to make subtle prototype-specific variations, something I've not seen Märklin do. The biggest plus for Tenshodo, however, is the siderod design. How many Märklin steamers have you seen with fully-articulated siderods? None. Märklin is still using the same hokey-looking one-piece stamped metal siderod part for all of their steamers, as if every locomotive class had the same siderod design. This is yet another example of how dated Märklin has become. The deliberate engineering choice of using plastic for chassis parts is not a means to "cheapen" their product in the manner you imply. In addition to its greater economy, plastic can be molded into more complex and intricate shapes than metal can (assuming a roughly comparable development budget). The result is a product so affordable that some of us purchase them as parts supplies to improve the performance of other locos. For instance, I plan to add tender pickup to a Märklin Bumble Bee, which despite it's "Mercedes" heritage, is a rather poor performer, especially at slow speeds. This is not surprising, given it has only three-wheel pickup. That is correct: only three wheels effectively can conduct current at any given time. The center two wheels are so ineffective that Märklin didn't even bother including wipers for them (even though it might have created a marginal benefit). Of the remaining four wheels, given a rigid frame, only three of them can be in perfect contact with the rails at once, owing to the tripod principal. Consequently the Bumble Bee is in desperate need of improvement. What's irksome is that Märklin is charging substantially more money for below-par performance. So, while the affordable Tenshodos are being snapped up at a swift pace, the Märklins remain sitting on the lot waiting for folks able to afford what amounts to little more than a status symbol. Given your obvious prejudice and lack of factual information, I find your arguments entirely without merit.
First, I am really astonished that so much of you build tracks and modules with japanese layouts You will for sure not tell me that you run this exot over some US layouts.... that would be just shocking. Anyway I dont want to complain about the Tenshodo, as it has no use for me. Japanese locomotives, I treat the same as bananas, throw the skin and try to use the rest. And here I'am exactly coming to the problem. The very short live ( Akia out, Tokyo Marui out, PRMLoco ?, Eisen-Platz ?, ? = nobody nows how long). Spare-parts, a joke. So if I want to use as example a PRMLoco chassis, I'am in shame to put him new clothes, because as slow-runner it is Speedy Gonzales in Indianapolis. I agree that Eisen-Platz Shinkansen looks already much better, with flywheels. But in wheelbase size I can not use it. And David, you are wrong when you think that I'am in love with Märklin I have before my eyes an MTL GP9 chassis and for this quality the price is unbeaten. If only I could stretch it.
Iam are not building Japanese layouts, I am building North American layouts to run trains and yes I am using Rokuhan track. Why because using this track produced a layout for me on which trains run for hours and do not derail. I have allot of experience with big z-scale layouts with Marklin track and Micro trains flex and various turnouts including my own large Micro trains roadbed track layout and when it come to running trains nothing so fare has been superior to Rokuhan. and we are frequently putting trains back on the track. It is hard to engage the public in conversation about our hobby if we are frequently having to stop and put stuff back on the track. What I have been able to demonstrate is that it is possible now with the currently available Z scale engines and cars to run trains right out of the box with the reliability that rivals N-scale train on Kato Unitrack. So for running trains and showing them to the public to me this is the answer. These are obviously not the domain of a Master Model Railroader who is looking to build a layout to be judged by his peers. As far as building stuff I have no problem using the China built Japanese product. At current prices I can afford to purchase several to build into something else. I have even taken such items as the Hallmark Christmas Lionel series of items and power them to run on Z scale rail. UP veranda turbine, UP M10000 Using EF64 parts. Liberty PA. Made my own doodle bug in Z scale. created an FP7 A shell and powered it using modified GP chassis. shortened a GP chassis to fit under MTL F7B shell. So both the GP and SD chassis can be stretched and shortened. In the past I modelled in Nn3 and so used lots of Marklin steam and there is no comparison between Marklin and Tenshodo.I am currently replacing some of my Marklin 2-8-2's chassis with Tenshodo ones.and they are a dream to operates with DCC too. So I go with what works for me and I write about my experience with these products. Maybe in Europe you can get Marklin parts but it is not that easy over here so as far as parts availability Marklin is no better than anyone else and not as good as some others. that's my soap box speech for this week. cheerz Garth
If this is the case, then why did you begin this whole affair by claiming that Japan only produced "toys"? If prototypical fidelity is of no concern to you, why the unnecessary and, I hasten to add, wholly incorrect condemnation of the Japanese model market?
1. Have someone who is UNBIASED dissect one of each engine. 2. I'll pay for the two engines, and I get to keep the dissected parts. 2. If the comparisons are the same then whoever says that Rokuhan is unfair pays for the two engines, and you get to keep the parts. You say they are the same so you should be willing to take the bet, since you would assume I'll lose. ...don
