New Z Stuff from MTL

joe,
i was talking about a modern smoothside combine, not a heavyweight.
Rio Grande had this one (behind the ABB loco set, just before the corrigated passenger cars).
http://67.15.20.45/images/d/DRGW79072834w.jpg.47975.jpg

the picture of the Santa Fe doodlebug is also of more modern design.
heavyweights someday, that's your call, but i was still staying with your current program of smoothside releases.
dave f.

 

My Bad

Sorry, didn't check out the photo...I really wated to do a combine, but the regular two door 71' offered a lot of MOW possibilities as well, so I went for that one first.

Cheers

JOe

 

Did I see steam as a possiblity?? YESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!

 

Joe... Will the E8 and the smoothsides come before christmas?

And, will the B unit be motorized? if it don't i hope i can fit a speaker in it Is a Sp version possibile? Even if they only had 1 E8 ( the differenses between the E8 and E9 is minor) I would like a Daylight train even if i have to paint it myselfe, but that seem's like a horrible job, so i hope MTL can do it for me

 

Joe D,

I your new passengers used inserts for the sides (maybe 1 - 3 common roofs and subframes), that would allow your market to remove or modify to make various railroads or versions. Of course, you sell them complete plus aftermarket spare sides, further increasing sales/volume.

If you figure out working diaphragms, OMG, we're going to go nuts !

 

E8

Not before Christmas, though I should have running chassis by then. We just put the schedule for development together, now I need to make sure there's production time as well. Both will be powered, but since we are using the SD40-2 chassis there is room in there for all sorts of stuff. Worst case, you remove the motor and sell it to Dave F...he's always needing something to power his latest masterpiece :O)

Also, I suspect SP will be one of the first roads we do, if not THE first. These Marketing types have strung me and you along enough, I put in my demands at the meeting and held my breath until they agreed. So I hope so ) !!! Like it or not, SP is still one of our biggest sellers, I have stuff with all sorts of road names left in inventory, not an SP Car insight. Amazing.

Cheers

Joe

 

Slides

It's not that easy. Mold interiors act as shut offs for the windows, meaning the sides are crushed upagainst the insert and leave some ghosting. The problem comes when you have minor indents in the insert at a spot where you have part of a new window intruding. That's how you get flas into an opeining. Some sides are interchangeable on cars without windows as shut-off's...Passenger cars aren't that agreeable. I worked up a design to make the cars in parts with the bottom and ends in one mold, the roof in a second and the sides as simple two part molds. A series of keys or clips would secure the sides. In theory that sounds good, but in practice you get assembly nightmares the likes of which this or any other company has never seen. So, we must go with the method that allows us the least expense in tooling and production. My goal with all this stuff is to make it affordable and durable...a big must in my book. I play with my trains, I don't collect them, so they must stand up to what I do to them or they are of no use to me. Price is huge in my book. I may work here and make good money, but like everyone else, I have a family to raise and I can't just spend what I want until the last one is out the door (10). So, if we can make these engines and cars affordable and competitive, then everyone wins, me especially!. There will always be a market for what AZL produces, high end, low volume, high detail and quality motive power and cars...just not everyone can afford that. If I had my way we'd be doing SP Cab Forwards all day every day...I need a slug of them to get my stuff over the Cascades, but until that day comes, I can appreciate the AZL's puffing away on other's layouts and dream big dreams in Z!

Cheers

Joe
MTL

 

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that.

Responses to decisions MTL has already made are free. Product development consulting is something I charge for. I trust you understand. PM me if you're really looking for help, but if you're happy with the current R&D approach at MTL then there isn't much you need me for.

I will say this though, its scary to hear that MTL is cutting tooling based on photographs, without having manufacturing drawings on hand. 90% of all the Pullman Standard drawings still exist. There's no reason not to use them for this line of passenger cars.

 

This must be in response to having different sides molded onto the roof/ends in one piece. (Correct me if I'm wrong) If you can swap the side inserts, then you can swap in a new insert for the mold interior also, and just keep those two plates with the two side inserts. No ghosting, no flash, and the two interior swapable plates are simple and quick to machine.

In fact, this should be done anyway, so that the sides can be thinned in the area of the windows, so that you don't have to cut tooling for window inserts, but can just put a sheet of clear window material behind the side. The Centralia cars in N scale are like this. Window insert tooling costs $$$$.

MTL may not have seen something like this, but lots of other companies have. The Walther's HO cars are a "nightmare" with keys and slots, and yet are the most solid cars available in HO plastic. All the Kato cars snap together as well. Both examples come assembled. I suppose someone could make the arguement of labor prices in the USA versus China/Japan, but with the ability to cut tool costs and have more product variety, it would be easy to absorb the cost.

Welp, I went and did it. More free advice. :zip:

 

But inset windows look much better IMHO than an acetate sheet- I prefer Kato's N scale passenger car windows to most other US passenger cars. What will be important to me are interiors and provision for all wheel pickups for after-market lighting units to be added later.

I must say I am glad MTL and AZL are legitimizing US Z scale, elevating it from 'toy-train' status. Its what caused me to consider Z scale after some rather unsatisfactory trysts with Marklin equipment.

Ajay

 

Cars

Thank you!!

)

 

Great news!!!:teeth: If UP is some of the first, I need to get some Milwaukee Road decals and re-do the E's and some of the passenger cars for a late fifties Olympian Hiawatha!! Joe, your our hero!!

 

Robert, in my travels I'd have to submit that isn't really true although I think I know where you're going with this.

The tastes and tradeoffs of the typical N Scale modeler really shouldn't be extrapolated from the comments of the "rounding error" number of extremely vocal and Eternally Dissatisfied few. I am not referring to folks who do excellent modeling and share it without pretension or hubris; I am also not referring to those who provide constructive criticism in a courteous way; I am referring to those who choose to treat various forums as sounding boards for their latest stand-up comedy routines against any number of major manufacturers announcements (although the subject of this post appears to continue to be the primary lightning rod for such drivel).

It's been my experience that the layouts I have visited run vintage N Scale equipment like Atlas First Generation rolling stock right next to the latest and greatest. And I'm pretty confident that they sleep well at night anyway.

Take a look at featured layout articles in N Scale and N Scale Railroading and see what rolling stock is pictured. These layouts were good enough to be featured in national magazines and I doubt that either editor even thought about requesting a reshoot with more state of the art rolling stock, or else.

The principal reason why many of us are model railroaders are model railroaders is for the fun of it. In my mind this does not include reading, listening to or supporting the rants of the insecure few who have nothing good to say about anything and prove this is so on a consistent basis, even to the point of adding "witty" signatures to their posts.

If there is really and truly a genuine dissatisfaction among the majority of N Scalers (a number which goes several of orders of magnitude above the quantity of all active posters on all boards taken together) about the product which has been offered to us to date, it seems to me that a proposal to any number of venture capitalists would result in a sufficient quantity of funds being made available for the Eternally Unsatisfied to finally put their money where their outsized mouths are.

The odds of that happening are about the same as my winning Powerball next week; why, then there would be nothing to complain about.

 

In slight defense. Mike is trying to fix a problem before it happens.

My opinion:
People who aren't so picky will buy a correct model just the same, but the picky guy might not. Doing the model correct won't keep the everyday regular MRRer from buying and that guy may not even know or care how accurate his models are.

I don't run a company.

If I knew more about these particular cars I would add to what has been said, I'm not exactly a PAX man myself.

Now if MT wants to do Erie Stillwell coaches I'll jump right in and offer what I know.

 

George,

There are far more indications (that there is a general dissatisfaction) than simply a few vocal minority.

Since we're in a MTL topic, and they make a perfect example...

I've been a member of the local Ntrak club since 1994. Back in the mid-late '90s, MTL was the top game in town. Members always talked up the latest releases. On a nationwide scale, the popularity was judged by the "collector's mentality" and the fact that every other month or so it seemed like there was a hot item that immediately sold out, had it's price sky rocket, and had people scrambling to the tiny hobbyshops in the middle of no where in hopes of finding that one gem left on the shelf.

Now, there's hardly any talk about MTL, in a club of ~60 members, with only 4-5 being part of the "vocal forum minority" that you suggest. There's some talk when a new model is produced, but hardly anything about re-runs of paint schemes. Apparently this is the case around the nation as well. Now, there's maybe one release a year that gains enough momentum to sell out right away and have it's price jump. Now, without having production numbers on hand, one might argue that MTL is simply making more quantities of each run to satisfy demand. But, I don't think this is the case, because MTL has "reportedly" been dissappointed with dwindling N scale sales. This was one of the reasons spread around as to why MTL was moving to the Z scale market with such ambition... to take the easy road to less competition.

You suggest the fact that people still run old equipment as an argument against what people require in new purchases. I see a big disconnect there. I run old equipment too. It's paid for already, I can still enjoy it. But how many people are out seeking to buy that old equipment? How much profit does a company like MTL gain from people that seek out the old rolling stock. (They may gain some by running the N Scale Collector, but that's a whole nother issue, and doesn't apply across the board.) By your standard, manufacturer's should just stop making new product, because the old stuff is good enough and this "huge non-vocal minority" already has enough equipment to run. Why would they need more?

No. MTL, and all other companies are in this to try and make money. Quality, and the concerns of the "vocal minority" are much bigger factors in sales than you may want to admit. After all, we're talking about new sales here. Not what equipment we've collected over a lifetime of model railroading. We're talking about the profit center here, and what can be done by companies to make more money in an industry that is gaining more competition every month.

 

Suffice to say that my original point stands-- Model Railroading is Fun, whether with new equipment or old, with a budget of $1 or $1 million; and I am very weary of the Eternally Unsatisified trying to project the false notion that there are issues with everything in 1:160.

To suggest that I have theorized that manufacturers should stop making product is an interesting and amusing spin but completely misguided. My actual point was that in my opinion (free and worth at least that much) the typical N Scaler does what he/she does paying little heed to what we frequent commentators have to say. The illustration of this can literally be found in any number of layout photo features. I think it strikes fear in the heart and ego of some of the Eternally Dissatisfied that some "poor slob" could somehow be content with "just a boxcar".

There is once again quite the dustup going over on "another venue" with respect to requiring "credentials" to be a Serious Model Railroader vs. a "Dabbler." It would be funny if it wasn't so sad and did not potentially scare off the new entrants that any venture requires to stay vibrant and growing.

In short, I believe we are in complete disagreement about how generally satisfied the N Scale populace is.

Incidentally, perhaps the club to which you belong has stopped talking about MTL, but meanwhile the readership of the UMTRR increases every month and the website traffic spikes with every announcement of a site update. Perhaps insignificant metrics, and I don't pretend that they are anything else. I have also said here and elsewhere that I believe we have a substantially inflated sense of our influence over the marketplace, another point on which we clearly disagree.

 

Hey Joe;

First of all "thank you" Joe for continuing to keep the goods coming from MTL, i know everyone is very a happy about this.

As for the recent round of "nit-picking" that has reared its ugly head on this site again, i would offer you "Joe D." this advise.

Stop posting info about new releases on this or any other Z scale site. It always leads to someone trying to tell you how to do your job. I to am a design professional (in a completly different field) and there is nothing my staff and I hate more than to have folks unrelated to our projects voice thier opinion before our work is complete. Once we finish a project, then it is open to the will of the general public. Only my client and i have any say in what we create, not the fickle public. Any negative feed-back after viewing the completed project is a good thing, but to make assumption about the integraty of the design before it has seen fruition is something i personnally can't stand. Great design is an expresion of one's emotions and therefore is usually misunderstood until it has worked its way throught to the end result.

So my advice to you would be to "stop" posting any reports about new releases untill the design work is off your desk and well into prodution. This way you can field the comments from others as "constructive critisism" to be taken into consideration for the next design project your assigned/awarded.

Tony B.....
10th Mountain Inc.