NIMBY-ism One More Time !!!!

Hytec Dec 22, 2008

  1. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    Well of course, but it amounts to an expense they weren't expecting to have to pay. CN is impacting them in an unexpected way.
    They may have contructed that grade crossing to have a certain life expectancey and train frequency worked out with EJE and now that's shot to heck. Hense why CN is footing part of the bill.
     
  2. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    I talked to someone in Kendleton, Texas who built a home along the old SP right of way right after they stopped running trains on in. They figured it was only time till it was all gone and faded away. Well, since then UP bought SP and sold the right of way to KCS. Now they have a new railroad literally in their back yard. Maybe they can sell it to a rail fan. ;) Here is the end of rail progress of last July. It is now way beond this point.
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Benny

    Benny TrainBoard Member

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    THE RAILROAD

    WAS THERE

    FIRST!

    There are already established grade crossing in place and those are recognized by the railroad and the governement as adequate protection. If the Public desires further convineience, then THEY have to take that further responsibility.

    If people are that worried about the hardships due to trains running on the tracks, they need to build underpasses or overpasses. If it is that big of a deal and represents that big of a problem to them, then THEY need to take the steps necessary to make THEIR lives easier.

    What is ridiculous is how often railroads are willing to play ball.

    What is more ridiculous is how the public is allowed to hold tot he ignorance that what is will stay as it is, and all the mean nasty things like trains and railraods and steelmills are dying industrioes and will shut down soon - which will further inflate their ridiculously overinflated sense of property value. We saw a big part of that buble bursting this last fall!

    Everybody who moved into this area had the same ability to observe that there were indeed active railroad tracks in the area, which means regardless of repair or utility, those tracks must always be assumed to have a live train on them at all times UNLESS the crossing signs have a clear "Defunct" sign on them. Old Boyscout rule!!!

    It is the responsibility of the municiplaities to take all active railroad property into consideration and maintian a public perception that the line could always be used to greater capacity. To think otherwise is feigning ignorance and misleading to the constituency.

    If NIMBYS coule READ, we would not NEED to use the courts in this country to enforce the laws already in existance or politely informNIMBYS that no such rules [the ones NIMBYS try to push] exists and further any new rules will not apply to that property!! It's GRANDFATHERED!
     
  4. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    How does train frequency impact wear and tear of a road crossing? Answer- It has no impact. The only cause for increased upkeep is growth of vehicle traffic. That's a planning issue for the "muni" to bear.

    Boxcab E50
     
  5. Benny

    Benny TrainBoard Member

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    I shall re-iterate: the public should understand that the default perception of the Life Expectancy of a railroad is FOREVER and the train frequency is ALWAYS.

    Those who are trying to tell the public otherwise are misleading and overstating their own political jurisdiction.
     
  6. friscobob

    friscobob Staff Member

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    Inasmuch as I like railroads and I want to see them succeed, and inasmuch as I think NIMBYs need a good swift kick in the collective rump, I wouldn't necessarily proclaim that a railroad will be at a certain location forever. Ask the folks who live along the abandoned right-of-way of the Milwaukee Road and Rock Island, or any long-gone branch line.

    I agree that municipalities thru which the "J" runs should not hamstring the railroad to the point where doing business is more trouble than it's worth, but I cannot expect the railroad to take the "public-be-damned" attitude either.
     
  7. Benny

    Benny TrainBoard Member

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    An Abandoned right of way is, in my mind, no longer a railroad - if indeed the NIMBYS get together and buy that property before anyone else can move back in and reclaim that railroad!
     
  8. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    It isn't about wear and tear, it's about the sizing, quality, warning equipment, gates etc etc etc.

    A set of tracks that sees 50 trains a day is going to get a heck of a lot more put into it. Probably and over/underpass. This is critical. When the Railroad changes hands and changes traffic profiles, that incurs major costs to the municipality, because it's the muni's job to pay for those changes.

    And Benny, I'd like you to show me ONE court case where being there first made a darn bit of difference. I mean really, if being there first mattered, then there wouldn't BE any railroads, because it would all be indian land. The fact is that being there first doesn't mean a hill of beans. Ask the ranchers along DME/CP's proposed route into Wyoming's Coal fields just how much their being there first matters when the railroad enacts eminent domain.

    Anyway, this thread is well on its way to being closed. The adversarial relationship between the townships and the Railroad is regrettable, but THEY worked it out. The adversarial relationship between Foamers and "NIMBYs" and anyone willing to look at things from their side will carry on I'm sure.
     
  9. Mopac3092

    Mopac3092 TrainBoard Member

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    yoho as far as emergency response, i can attest as i am in the fire/ems profession that those issues have already been addressed years ago, it is more than likely sop's as to how and what kind of response is done and if an issue arrises there are always options available such as another station responding, mutual aid, different route, whatever, i'm sorry but i love it that the nimby's can't have their cake and eat it too.
     
  10. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    In many instances, it only appears that way. When in fact the railroad simply went along, as it was faster and cheaper than going through court.

    Boxcab E50
     
  11. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    Exactly, compromise
     
  12. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    Oh, I agree, I don't like NIMBYs either, the implication of the name says it all, I welcome their comeupance.
    All I said was that their concerns aren't completely without merit.
     
  13. Benny

    Benny TrainBoard Member

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    Look up "GRANDFATHERED", yoho! Yes, Eminent Domain can te it up, but then the opposing party must offer fair compenstion for the property.

    My uncle decided to build a large RV garage in his front yard - 15 feet high, 40 feet wide, 60 feet wide. Now the neighbors did not like this so they took them to court. 20 grand later he won - the building stays put - and though there were no damages awarded in either side, it cost the neighborhood no less then twice what my uncle spent defending his property rights - his garage was completely built to code, there is no HOA, it is NOT in a floodplain, END OF STORY.

    Now even if the County code is changed in the future, his garage Still stays because that building is grandfathered under the pre-existing code.

    You seem to love courts. Let me save you some money - read the law before you sue!
     
  14. Benny

    Benny TrainBoard Member

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    And they should take those complaints up with the muni, the entity responsible for properly planning for the full fledged operating railraod that already existed within their borders.

    I know in these parts the UP offers a small chunk of change for the construction of overpasses/underpasses. It is the public that entirely benefits from these improvements, whereas the railroad already has the right of way at any speed as covered by law set by interstate commerce acts - the railroad owns the land, it is the public which has the Easement over that land.

    Anyhow - it's only too bad common sense wasn;t more common - itr would save our legal system a TON of problems.
     
  15. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    I don't know, their methods seemed to have worked, CN is paying for $60million worth of improvements that aren't "technically" their responsibility.

    And grandfathering doesn't always apply and rarely would it apply in a case like this.
     
  16. Charlie

    Charlie TrainBoard Member

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    let me add my $.02 to this...
    CN is disingenuine in it's "story" to the communities affected. CN is just looking for a way
    to route their low priority shipments(read coal,ore,stone etc) from their busy,and expensive to maintain, routes on the GTW,IC,etc in Chicago and surrounds. The "story" they are telling is a gray shaded half-truth. It may reduce the volume of traffic on other routes,that is true, but they gave no indication that that reduction of traffic would remain static. Their claim that the rerouting will spawn jobs MUST be taken with a grain of salt. The CN/IC and the "J" and related carriers already have a fairly ample supply manpower and there has been some hiring as of late. These trains that will be routed over the "J" will NOT be locally originating traffic so their crewing will come most likely from another area. Once business picks up again, there will be sufficient traffic for ALL
    the CN/IC related routes.
    The BNSF tried to pawn this same ridiculous canard off on the industry,regulators and employees a few years back when they said they would reroute ALL East/West thru traffic through the Memphis TN terminal area, thus bypassing Chicago! Yuk,Yuk,Yuk..
    what a laugh that turned out to be. IT NEVER DID WORK OUT !!!!! ROFL!!!!
    A young colleague of mine,who was raised in Memphis, transferred down there,built a new house,brought his family... the whole 9 yards. Within a year he was back in Chicago!
    Had the durndest time trying to sell his brand new house too! He couldn't wait to get back to Chicago!! And as I said, Memphis was HOME to him! Railroads and Airlines are about the biggest corporate liars in the the business world. Railroad history in this country is rife with corporate piracy and manipulation. Jay Gould even tried to rope President U.S.Grant into cornering the market on silver,using gov't. money! Dont believe
    a word they say, ask any employee!

    CT
     
  17. ednsfan

    ednsfan TrainBoard Supporter

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  18. Mac46

    Mac46 New Member

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    I can relate to the NIMBY instance. I worked at the Manassas Municipal airport and a mainline rail line I believe NS ran on the line, I am probably wrong) track ran just to the west of the departure end of the two runways. The airport when I worked there was isloated but then the building boom hit. Housing developments sprung up all over the airport. Manassas was just starting to be a reliever airport for Dulles International Airport. The old road to the airport went under the tracks but the new terminal was served by a grade crossing but a half mile south of the crossing was a switch for a siding. I think you can see where I am going with this. One evening a Lifeguard Flight arrived to carry a terminal cancer patient home where he would pass under hospice care. The aircraft was an older model Learjet and once the patient was loaded the pilot said he was going to make a max power performance takeoff because they were cleared directly to their cruising altitude after wheels up. So I was prepared for the inevitable phone calls. Sure enough, the Lear departed with a crackling roar and my phone proceeded to ring with usual complaints. Followed shortly by a freight which announced itself by its horn for the grade crossing. It hit the siding and came to a halt directly on the grade crossing. The development went up in arms again and for some reason called me to complain about the train sitting on the crossing. I reminded them of the older road that went under the tracks but they couldn't be bothered to take a 2 mile detour. That and I also reminded them I didn't work for the railroad which infuriated some callers even more. Upshot was, the siding was moved to keep the grade crossing unblocked, the but the city manager and mayor fought against the development tooth and nail as the airport was a massive money maker for them. Property values slid, lawsuits were filed with no real outcome.

    The airport and railroad was there first, as was mentioned before.............know where you live and if you can't live with aircraft or train noise, don't buy and move in.

    Caveat emptor.
     
  19. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    Mac46, well said.
    As has been said by many before in this thread, the Buyer is responsible for performing Due Diligence. Sadly, the majority of buyers do not perform due diligence, but are more than willing to spend thousands of dollars after the fact for someone else to cover for their laziness and apathy. Who loses? All of us by being customers and/or taxpayers who have the costs of legal defense thrust upon us being the bottom line in our economy! I have No Sympathy for NIMBYs who show up years later and scream the loudest.
     
  20. harveyhenkelmann

    harveyhenkelmann TrainBoard Member

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    If the NIMBY's had their way, our remaining industrial capacity would be outsourced to China.

    I say let the rail traffic increase for a change
     

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