Okay, I am switching to DCC and decided to start with what everyone says is an easy installation that being putting a TCS K2D4 decoder into a Kato SD80. Actually I am doing two of them. Supposedly this is a drop in fit, just some Kapton tape and exchanging the light board for the decoder. Followed the instructions on the TCS website for this install. Seemed easy enough, toughest part was applying the Kapton tape. Got the decoder in and made sure the motor contact tabs were behind the decoder motor contacts. Placed the engine on the track and set the controller for address 03. Nothing happens. Took the engine off the track and turned off the system. Placed a Bachmann loco that was DCC equipped on the track and powered up the system. It operated just fine, lights worked forward and backward. Took that engine off and using a rerailer put the SD80 back on. Again nothing. Tried the second decoder in the same engine making sure that pesky motor tab was under the decoder contacts and got the same result. Examined the engine for possible contact issues and all of the contacts appear in proper order. So, what's up with this??? Does the decoder have to be programed first? I thought they were all set to address 03 initially. Any suggestions? PS: Decoders were brand new recently purchased for this install.
With the shell off- try putting some pressure on the board to frame contacts (at the front) There are only two contact points for rail power to get to the board. Put a tooth pick or some other non electrical conducting material under the board to put some pressure on the board so the contact points make connection. Then try running on address 3.
Okay, I first cleaned the track and checked all of the locomotive contact strips. All were good to go so I tried the toothpick wedges with no success. I then replaced the decoder with the original light board and ran the locomotive on analog DC. Worked fine. I somehow can't imagine it is the decoder because I am getting the same result with three decoders (two K2D4's and one K1D4) in a Kato SD80 and a GG1. My next step is to try a multi-meter to see if I have any interruption in the current path between the rails to the loco frame and then to the decoder. But that will have to wait until tomorrow. I am thinking if no interruption then I got three bad decoders unless there is something else I missed. Oh, one more thing I did. I set up my system as a programing track to try to read the decoder. Got no response, not even the address. So unless I am missing something (that is entirely possible) it looks to me like three bad decoders or a contact problem.
Try the solder blobs on the decoder pads, first. 3 bad decoders would be very improbable; but decoders not making good contact with the frame is highly probable. It has almost become standard for me to add just a smidge of solder with these.
I hesitate to try this because soldering is not a highly developed skill on my part and I don't want to do anything that might jeopardize the warranty even though they claim it is goof proof. I'll do the multi-meter test first to see if I have a good current path. Will report back with findings.
This is why I suggested the wedging of something under the board to push up on it to make better contact with the two frame notches. I have used solder before and still had to wedge something under the board be for it made good contact. Cut a small piece of the foam packing material that the loco came with. Push it between the front of decoder board ( at the front headlight LED) and the frame- push it in there tight- make sure that you get both motor tabs tucked under the decoder wings. BTY did you solder the two wings to the decoder? Some decoders you must transfer the wings from the original light board to the new decoder board- possible bad connection here too. I always solder mine. If you are not able to read the decoder under a programing track mode- I bet you still have a bad connection to the decoder at the tabs, or motor.
I tried wedging toothpicks under the decoder to lift the ears with no results. The decoder seems to be in there pretty tight. So I doubt that is the problem but maybe it is. I got a multi-meter and will use it tomorrow. I figure I'll start with the track then the loco frame and finally the decoder tabs that go into the notches. Stayed tuned tomorrow. These decoders came with the motor contacts already soldered to the board.
Inkaneer, Try this. Most, maybe all, diesels come with a little brass strip that retains the couplers in their pockets. Wedge one of these between the chassis frame and the decoder pad, do both sides and make sure they are in far enough to complete contact between frame and decoder pad. If you have to, bend one or both of the brass strips and then shove it in to complete the circuit. Then take an .0090 screw and attach the coupler to the loco with it. Just my 2 (?) cents worth. Always, have fun, Carl
Okay, report is ready. The problem was a contact issue between the decoder and the loco frame. Both SD 80's now work as they should. Now I have to program them to un in a consist. But at least they work. However, the GG1 is another story. The lights work in both directions but I am getting no voltage reading at the motor contacts. Hard to tell if it is a contact issue as the motor contacts are hidden from view in the frame. Needless to say the locomotive does not move. Since the LED lights work I have to accept that the decoder to frame contact is good. I re-reviewed the installation instructions on TCS's website. This is a pretty straight forward install and they make no mention of the use of any Kapton tape. In reality there is a plastic clip that goes over the decoder motor contacts that isolates them from the frame so no tape is needed. I am out of ideas on this one so I think this decoder will go back to TCS for their inspection and repair or replacement.
Do you have continuity between the clips (removed from the original board) and the pads they attach to on the decoder board?
Inkaneer, This is the contact I told you about in my first reply- What did you do to fix the problem??
On your GG 1, Like Rick Brodzinsky asked- did you solder the clips in place? This decoder comes with out the motor clips being attached. When all else fails- I hook up the decoder with jumper wires to check the decoder- if good then I know that I need to do some more checking of the install and all of the connections. Gook luck Might want to do some soldering exercises to improve your skills as an solder.
Actually what I did was use a device called a "chip lifter' It looks like a miniature pry bar. Our Ntrak club uses them to slide rail joiners onto our joiner tracks between modules. So I used it to as a pry bar to slide the decoder further forward into the slots where contact was established.
I really do not want to solder the clips in place. First of all the clips fit very snugly in position so what I want to do is test the decoder outside of the engine by hooking it up to my DCC system using alligator clips on the frame contact pads and then seeing what the multi-meter says is the voltage over the motor clip pads (not the clips themselves). If there is voltage then I will consider soldering. But if not, the decoder goes back. Since the lights work in both directions the decoder is obviously getting voltage from the track.
Well the decoder might be getting power from the track- BUT with out the motor contacts being made is will not run- nor will you be able to program- or read any DCC CV's.
The purpose is to determine if current is available to the motor contacts. I know the decoder is getting current because the lights (LEDs) work. But is the current getting to the pads where the motor contacts clip onto? Using the multi-meter on those pads will tell me if it is. In essence the multi-meter will be replacing the motor. If no current is getting to the pads then something is wrong with the decoder. If the pads are getting power then I have to look further.
Carl, he will get a reading but it is not real accurate. If he uses the AC setting it will be close- It will be close enough to see if there is voltage present on the tabs. What we are seeing is a AC square wave, so a DVM does not read it very well. He stated that the LED's are working, problem with that, LED's take very little current to make them work. Motors draw more current. I just worked on one for a customer of mine- Could not make the loco run-lights came on but no motor drive. I had to solder a wire from the decoder to each of the motor leads before I could get the motor to run. Good old Atlas loco and a decoder that just used the pressure of the motor tabs pressing on the under side of the board. I first tried to bend the tabs and cleaned the underside contacts, but ended up soldering the two jumpers to fix the problem.
All I am doing is trying to see if the decoder is sending power to the motor contacts. I don't care about how accurate it is. I want to know if the decoder is working as it should. If it is then I will get a readout on the meter above 000. If it is not then I will get 000 and the decoder goes back. PS: Should not the motor contacts have DC current since it is a DC motor?
