As a newbie to modelling the NYC (thanks to a present of a light mike and GP7) I am about to embark on modelling a section of the NYC in HO. May I ask some questions: 1. Did the NYC own any rural lines on which these two locos might be found in the late 40's-early 50's? Where can I find information about these lines? 2. Does any manufacturer offer a 'close enough' range of buildings for NYC? What were the NYC signature colours for company structures? 3. I am gussing that either the Wathers or Branchlines range of passenger vehicles would get me started but any suggestions would be very helpful. I just need no more than three passenger cars for the layout. 4. If I wish to expand the layout to a third item of motive power, what would be suitable? Thank you
Bulldozer, welcome to Trainboard and to the New York Central forum. Good to have you aboard. I am not sure when the NY Central first purchased the Geeps, but the steamer would sure be on several divisions in the timeframe you specified. I remember early diesels being Alco RS-2,3 and FA, not sure of EMD units. Upstate New York and Pennsylvania had rural divisions and I'm not exactly sure how to direct you to them. If you had an old NYC timetable from that era it would help. We have a member LEW who ran steam and diesel locomotives in Indiana. Maybe he will tell us when the EMD's showed up. :teeth:
F-units - a few FTs arrived in 1944, then F3s in 1947-48 and F7s in 1949-52. http://www.trainweb.org/emdloco/modelsearch.htm
branches If you can look at or have one handy,New York Central Trackside with Eugene Van Dusen,and start at 1953 and go to the end you will find what you are looking for.In the midwest branch lines 1952 was the year that the diesel started to be used . The P&E started in late 1950 ? ,and went almost all diesel overnight.The H-5,H-6 used on locals H-10. on freight until 1952 and then L-2,3,4. The K-3 on small passenger trains,1 - 3 cars until about 1952 and then 4-6-4 Hudson until 1954 and then the GP-7 started taking over these short runs.Hope this helps. LEW
Many thanks for your help. I found a nice USRA Pacific and an RS-3 to fufill my motive power needs for my shelf layout. Now, I just need to read about NYC rural lines. The Adirondack Mtns. seem to be interesting as is the Syracuse-Auburn branch. Tim
The NYC also had a branch that ran from upstate NY down through PA to Newbury Junction (connection with the Reading RR). It shared trackage with the ERIE (later Erie-Lackawanna), and had a line that ran into Wellsboro, PA (where I live). Richard Stoving's book about Wellsboro's Railroad has some great info and nice pictures of steam and early diesel. I am modeling the area in N scale.
The local branch in our area was the Dunkirk NY - Titusville PA "Dunkirk, Allegheny Valley & Pittsburgh" (DAV&P). Very rural, non-NYC, land of 2-8-0's, 4-6-0's, and even I remember a couple NYC GP's. It was a real relatively unknown branch. Some really nice street running in Warren, PA that's been in TRAINS magazine. Crossed the PRR on a flyover at Youngsville, PA. Crossed the Erie mainline at Falconer, NY. For history and web page information, search for the DAV&P roadname. The nickname was the "Dolly Varden". It ran with a gas-electric in the final years. I have a lot of PC and Conrail era shots of the line, its just about completely gone, but it has a small and devout following. Small portions of the branch remain in Fredonia, NY, Warren, PA, Irvine, PA, and the section between E. Titusville and Titusville (3 miles) is operated as the Oil Creek & Titusville railroad today (freight only). http://www.wnyrails.org/railroads/davp/davp_home.htm
They ran some heavy coal traffic on that branch and they pooled crews, cabooses and motive power........ An NYC mike or two might be on the head end, with Pennsy crews, a hippo on the rear...........
This is a new term for me. What is a "hippo?" Is this referencing a caboose? A specific style? Boxcab E50
Since nobody else has replied, I'll take a shot. No, "hippo" does not refer to a caboose. The original quote was referring to operations on the Pennsylvania Railroad. The 'hippo" is a large-boilered steam locomotive being used as a helper - pushing on the rear of the train. Since I'm a NYC modeler, not a PRR modeler, I'm not sure but I think the locomotive was a large Mikado class (2-8-2) or maybe a 2-8-0 Consolidation.
I think "hippo" referred to I1 2-10-0s. They had a large boiler, and, being Decapods, didn't ride smoothly.
The NYC used 2-6-6-2 mallets and the Erie used double headed Mikados, although I'm sure there were other variants as well. From what I've read these were the primary engines for the coal drags to/from Newbury Jct.
New York Central in Pine Creek Valley The NYC ran a heavy duty line to Williamsport area (Jersey Shore, Pa. and environs). It was largely powered by multiple mike and mohawk drags and featured heavy industrial diversified traffic along with coal drags. It was not anybodys joint operation. That is, no ERIE or Pennsy trains. There are two small books around written by a former dispatcher, and traveling grunt that worked there. They are offered for sale on various NYC oriented groups. Pine Creek (a/k/a "the Grand Canyon of Pennsylvania) was a tortuous winding climb northward, that was a truly impressive piece of railroad to observe. Even from top side at the State Park overlook 900 feet above the trains, the racket was immense. Later dynamic equipped diesels filled the air with screams along with the brake shoe dust from the downbound trains. Made redundant in the PENN-CENTRAL/ CONRAIL era it was abandoned to the hunters and fisherman. Despite some minor errors the WIKIPEDIA piece on "Jersey Shore, Pine Creek & Buffalo" is what you need to start studying this line. However, this was no ordinary rustic branchline. It was big time railroading with more tonnage moving than went over the main lines of some class 1 lines of that epoch. Good-Luck, PJB
Adirondack and Catskill Branches The Catskill Division ran from Kingston, NY to Oneonta, NY. It's really rural, mountainous, and had couple of stiff grades. Now the Catskill Mountain RR runs part of it and the Ulster and Delaware runs another section. Alco Rs units were the diesels on the line first, and they replaced Ten wheelers. Of course, no reason to change the facts a little bit. The Adirondack Division was really pretty, remote, and I think they used mostly Alco power, too. I'm only old enough to remember the Penn Central days. Again, I'd research the lines you're interested in, and use the locos you have. The Adirondack Sceninc RR might be able to provide more info.
"The NYC ran a heavy duty line to Williamsport area (Jersey Shore, Pa. and environs). It was largely powered by multiple mike and mohawk drags and featured heavy industrial diversified traffic along with coal drags. It was not anybodys joint operation. That is, no ERIE or Pennsy trains. There are two small books around written by a former dispatcher, and traveling grunt that worked there. They are offered for sale on various NYC oriented groups. Pine Creek (a/k/a "the Grand Canyon of Pennsylvania) was a tortuous winding climb northward, that was a truly impressive piece of railroad to observe. Even from top side at the State Park overlook 900 feet above the trains, the racket was immense. Later dynamic equipped diesels filled the air with screams along with the brake shoe dust from the downbound trains. Made redundant in the PENN-CENTRAL/ CONRAIL era it was abandoned to the hunters and fisherman. Despite some minor errors the WIKIPEDIA piece on "Jersey Shore, Pine Creek & Buffalo" is what you need to start studying this line. However, this was no ordinary rustic branchline. It was big time railroading with more tonnage moving than went over the main lines of some class 1 lines of that epoch. Good-Luck, PJB" Interesting. In his book "Wellsboro's Own Railroad" by Richard Stoving (of NYC fame) references how the two companys shared the trackage. "Erie trains were no strangers on the line for most of it's existence, the Erie having trackage rights between Corning (and later Gang Mills) and Newberry Yard, west of Willaimsport. Mutual trackage rights between the New York Central and the Erie probably date back to the earliest operations of this line as wll as the line between Lawrenceville and Blossburg" (p.29). He includes photos of ERIE steam on the line as well as a (poor quality but better than nothing!) photo of a NYC 2-6-6-2 at the coaling station at Wellsboro Jct. (This was my justification for buying the Bachmann 2-6-6-2 Unfortunately we didn't move here to the mid 80's so I missed all of that, although the tracks were still there for a few years. Now the line through the canyon has been claimed by "Rails to Trails" and is used by hikers and horseback riders. The line from Wellsboro to Corning still exists and is used for tourist trains as well as local freight. The Pennsy had it's own (separate) line from Williamsport up to Elmira. Also fascinating as you could see Mikados and 2-10-0's in conjunction with PA1's (!) as they struggle to get the trains though the mountains. I hope this info is useful.
ALL NYC history is useful. The rails to trails thing is really obliterating a lot of history and we have to rely on the memories of folks who worked these lines or wrote about them many years ago. :teeth:
