Officially new to Z! Where the heck do I start? (procurement?)

Hello ladies and gentlemen, I'm here with a fistful of Z and lots of questions! A bit about me:
-An N scaler, with essentisally ALL Northern Pacific equipment (60+ engines, hundreds of cars both passenger and freight)
-An avid fan of late steam and early diesel (1st gen stuff, up to ~ 1965)
-A resident of sunny California (Berkeley to be specific)
-Absolutely IN LOVE WITH THE Z SCALE I SAW AT SACRAMENTO THIS WEEKEND! (Bay area guys, your stuff rocks!)

SO: I bought my first Z scale today. I feel it was a good starting point, since I have wanted Z for years. I have:
-Marklin 8182 set, with 2 extra passenger cars, power pack, etc.
-extra track, people, buildings, trees.
-DEAD loco (060 disassembled, with a wonky melted wheel & missing screws)

So...... I need to start somewhere. I need a loco, first off, as this little one I have is just too far gone. Should I start with a simple little engine like that or just go the full monty and get a Micro Trains diesel? I sort of feel like starting small and cheap might be better since I have no clue if I'll want to get into Z like I'm into N.......

As far as procurement? I have two options; sell some N scale NP engines to fund the Z stuff, or simply wait for paydays. Where will I find deals? Secondhand? Retail? Auction sites? Should I sell the 060 or get it fixed?

I plan on investing in some quality stuff (AZL and MT), and aiming for american prototype on most any layout I build. NP is always my #1 roadname, but it never killed me to decal or paint a loco. I've got a good 11" by 8" humidor that would hold a cool little scene, and I have some cool ideas for other little shelf or coffee table layouts.... but do you guys have any ideas on good starter track plans or have any cautionary tales? Am I crazy for even dipping my feeet into the ocean of Z scale? Thanks for any and all advice!

-Brian

 

Hi Brian your question is pretty wide... How to give you a decent reply? Well, I think it's now easy to get the Z scale bug as there is more and more available equipment month after month... If you're focused on NP try to find a MTL GP9 wearing that paintscheme, it's worth the investment. Infortunately NP steam loco roster shows no Mikado ran on its network. So no chance to use one of AZL's future USRA Mikes. However there are already rather numerous 1st and 2nd generation diesels available: AZL GP7, Micro-Trains (MTL) F7s, GP9s and GP35s. All within the $200 range (and if you want a lift into modern era you may find MTL SD40-2s and AZL SD70s). All of these models are terrific runners, provided you juice them with adequate power supply. Mostly from MRC, from Zthek or from Passmann in Germany, really allowing motive power to creep. If you want to purchase second-hand stuff you may go to e.ay and search "Z". And take time to wander on forums such as this one, you'll find many useful informations. Welcome to Z scale heaven!

Dom

 

Hi Brian,

Welcome to Z-scale!

I myself am in Z scale since 1989. I started with MärklinZ. Eventually I started to replace all de Märklin fishhook couplers with MTL replacement couplers. These were not typically for European rolling stock but looked much better. .. and some switching was possible. Eventually in 2006 I jumped into US style Z scale by buying a MTL UP GP35.
These MTL GP's and also SD's can not be compared with Märklin, MTL is simply fantastic (cannot yet judge AZL, but I assume AZL is compareble to MTL). I can switch with my GP's as with the larger scale trains using a Märklin 05 electronic controller (brown with orange control)!

If you go for Märklin, ensure that you get the locomotives with 5-pole motors. Starting with just a 0-6-0 Märklin switcher might give you the wrong impression of what is possible in Z-scale now (even if it has a 5-pole motor..)

 

Welcome to Z. If I was to give advice to someone just starting, here is how it would work. First off, get some MT or Rokuhan road bed track just to get started. You will want reliable track above all. Next I would without hesitation get an AZL GP 7 or MT SD 40. Those two in my experience are the most reliable locomotives out there. I would also put the GP 9 and GP 35 from MT in that same class. (you just have to modify the open pilot to make them look as good as the other two) I would stay away from the steammers unless it is a new AZL or tenshodo.

Now the issue, controllers. The marklin power pack to me is bad. It works in steps.
Ok, if you just run the new deisels, then the MT 1300 modified power supply will work well. If you try and run steam, a snail speed controller or a Jorger will make them run acceptable. I would also get a guagemaster as it will prevent all stalling unless there is a real huge issue.

Forget all this if you go DCC.

 

There are a number of us around that have made the transition from N to Z in recent years. I started with Z in 2002 and migrated from Nn3. SO was already familiar with the available track and preferred power packs. I knew mostly Marklin Steam as in Nn3 they are used for conversions. but quickly acquired a number of diesels and used my Nn3 freight mixed with Z freight. Now I have added a few more modern cars. Most things I get from 3 sources.Norm at Norms Train world , Loren at stonebridge Models, and Anthony at Z scale Monster. I tend not to deal on the E-pray er Bay site. and other offerings that appear on the Yahoo Z list. Over the last few years I have moved my rolling stock to all metal wheelsets (reduces the problems of dirty wheels and track when compared to the delrin wheels - imho) from FVM and Uncle Will and to body mount Micro Trains couplers(like in n- scale it is easier to back up cars for switching if they have body mount couplers imho). I started with Micro Trains road bed track in 2005 but have been really impressed with the Rokuhan track and my little 2 x 4 ft show layout has performed well with put the trains on the track start them moving and they stay moving for hours. The big Yard at the NMRA train show in Z was all done with Rokuhan track. I run more diesel than steam in Z and have started the move rto DCC also, but that is not necessary if you have a good DC controller LIke Joeger, Passman in Europe Mendvend and Zthek on this side. and I like the Japanese Z controllers from Crown and Rokuhan. Many of these have battery options as well as wall transformer options as a primary power source.I am still selling off my N-scale cars and engines collected over 30+ years.

So welcome to Z and hope you find it as enjoyable at N if not more so.

 

Welcome Brian

I, like many people in the Z-forum, have migrated down from the larger scales to Z. In My case it was from Gauge 1 and Gauge 3! However I have not had as much fun railway modelling as I do know.

One word of caution though, Like many people I started with Marklin stock and whilst it was O.K many of the proportions of the Locomotives is a bit off, mainly cause they have stretched them to fit standard european mechanisms. The F7 is a case in point. I endorse what others have said about the MTL and AZL locos even my early MTL F7s run well (Though ther sound like coffee grinders) but the AZL GPs and the MTL GPs and SDs run faultlessly all weekend when we have our Cuyahoga Nickel Plate Road layout out at shows here in the U.K

As for the dead 0-6-0T paint it rusty and build a scrapyard in the corner of the layout to put it in!

here's a link to Cuyahoga at the recent Kyle show in Scotland where once again it was one of the most reliable exhibits at the show

http://youtu.be/IxK2kCyJPf0

Good luck. You will find the guys on this forum are some of the most helpful around

KEV

 

OOps forgot to mention

If you do want to ressurect the 0-6-0T there are a lot of guys who have done the conversion of the BR89 to an SW1 using Laos's cunning kit who might have some spare wheels left over as you lose the ones on the middle axles. But check that the armature is O.K first as it is really dificult to fix the motor in the 0-6-0 steam and diesel mechanisms

cheers
KEV

 

OK so I put the old/busted 060 on the fleabay. I am quite sure someone can use its parts to resurrect one of their own! (I put a grip of N scale N.P. stuff up for sale as well, I reeeeeally want some Z! haha) So I have been mulling over the modules I saw at NTS over the weekend, and considering some of the things I saw there. Someday I'd love to build a module with a club, but for now? I'd be pretty happy with a shoebox loop!

I did see the Rokuhan track (flex track! wow!) at the NTS, and it looks really nice. Prices weren't heartstoppers either! I am used to cork roadbed and fine grain ballast, and since I already have the track the cork/ballast method seems like a good place to start..... is the Rokuhan or MT roadbed-included track more reliable?

 

ALSO- I saw this Rokuhan Train Controller RC-01. Good controller?

http://www.intermountain-railway.com/distrib/rokuhan/html/C001.htm

I love the idea of switch controllers built in, and the overload protection is nice too.....

 

Brian,
Welcome to Z. The Rokuhan system is a good solution, they have been able to learn from MTL and Marklin offerings. I recently purchased an oval and am very pleased with the product. I would suggest you search out the postings of Garth and David K. Smith in the Z forums as they seem to have the most experience using Rokuhan. Note that Rokuhan is a "plug-and-play" system: so you will be buying interconnect cables and the controller will not control the 3-wire turnouts of MTL or Marklin. I have plans for a Rokuhan layout as soon as the flex and 90-degree crossing become available. Note that there is nothing "wrong" with the MTL and Marklin track and each has certain advantages. MTL is the only source for both roadbed and nonroadbed track. They also have the most U.S. prototypical tie spacing, if that is important to you. Marklin track has been around the longest and currently has the best selection of track sections.
As for some of you earlier questions, I've been very satisifed with zscalemonster.com for new items. They sale a transition car (MTL coupler on one side, Marklin on the other) that you might find useful. For used items I like ztrackresale.com. They have a wide selection from many manufacturers, not just the majors. Everything I've received has been very lightly used and exceeded expectations. BTW: being new to Z you should be aware of the term HOS (hardened oil syndrome) if you are buying used Marklin. At one time they used a lubricant that over time hardened to the point that it could damage an engine. Expect to do a clean and lub on older units.
Also be aware that the Z community is rather small, so most of us know the people behind the companies we talk about.

Mark

 

NP's class W locomotives were all Mikados. They differed a bit from the standard issue USRA Heavy Mikado, but there is a conversion kit out there made by GHQ to take an N scale Kato Mikado and turn it into an NP Class W-3 Mike, and I imagine a similar kit could be devised for this future Z scale release.

I can understand the original poster's being bitten by the Z scale bug. You folks do some great stuff here. The Cascade Z-Scalers show up at a lot of the train shows around here and they are one of my favorite clubs/layouts to visit at various train shows.

Adam

 

BTW Brian you are aware that Marklin did an NP steam set (#81535) .

 

Watching the set on 3bay right now! And the loco separately.... there are so many nice things around but I do love late steam/early diesel. Heard AZL is working on F3's! I'd like to stick with non-Marklin diesels (for proto-ness) but for steam? That 4-6-2 is mighty nice! How does it run? Also, I am looking at a Rock Island F7.... stripping it is easy, paint ain't too hard either, but would it be a chore to find Z scale NP decals?

 

Brian,
I don't own the 4-6-2 but have seen it go for hours at a show. I do have the Marklin Mikado, which has the same 5-pole motor, and I'm satisifed with its performance: runs well at low speeds and pulls a reasonable load. I don't think any of the Marklin U.S. locos are very prototypical, they're sort of an average, but a 1:220 it's not that noticable. For my Mikado, I've been considering reworking it for WP. "All" it takes is to rebuild the tender, move the bell, add a preheat tank, remove some skirting and a paint job. I figure the plumbing differences are too small to notice.
The most common steam is from Marklin or AZL. You might want to checkout the Aspen products at rslaser.com. There are a number of small semicustom houses that do steam, frequently on a Marklin chassis but I can't comment on the quality, performance or availablity.
As for commerical Z scale decals, they are rare, particularly if they include white. You might want to try your hand at printing your own. Other than that, you're right, with enough attention to the details, it's easy.
Yes AZL is working on F3's and MTL announced E3's a while back. But I'd be surprised if we see either this year.
Mark

 

So the link I got the information from is wrong... Good news!
Dom

 

No problem. I was using the Northern Pacific Classic Steam Era book as my reference, but there's also this list on NPRHA.org:

http://research.nprha.org/Lists/Class List/AllItems.aspx

Scroll down to the W classes for a list. Now, whether any of these looks close enough to the upcoming Z scale model is another matter.



Now if I could just alter history and get a couple of 2-10-2 locomotives into history, as either NP or SP&S, I would be set.

 

Adam, since Portland is a bit of a ways from Medford, and I've been caught up in life in general, I have not attended many of the recent Portland shows, but sure am planning on the WGH show in February of next year. CZM is talking about it already. Two of our members, Jerry Craig and Mike Skully came down and were at NTS and did a magnificent job running our CZM modules that did make it down to Sacramento. Jerry gave me some good advice on a new end module and that got me to looking more closely at my trailer which I use to transport my modules. Looks as though I can make more modules and carefully arrange them to fit in the trailer. So, I'm excited about getting together with the CZM gang next year. I haven't seem some of our members in a year or two.

Don't recall meeting you in the past, but look forward to the opportunity come February.

 

We haven't met, yet, and that's probably because I am mostly an N-scaler. I spend a lot of time lurking in Z because you folks do some really nice work here and I learn a lot from your projects.

 

I'm one of those guys who's just fine with a stand-in model, so a stock USRA Mike is better than nothing Of course, I have my eye on that GP7, and I think AZL's Mikes look FANTASTIC and are reason enough for my eyes to ignore Marklin's Mike. No offense to Marklin, but you know, just look at the pics....