Read here, and many other forums long enough, and this is right on. Atlas probably doesn't miss their forum one bit.
I bought mine when LL first released this model. All are a little growly, but so far they have run just fine.
From another forum: "I just opened the box from Walthers, no need for photos. I popped one open and they are the same mech and same annoying pickup tabs attached to the walkway. Just a new batch of loco's. Tony Hines" "Forgot to look at that, yes, they are lo-pro / RP25 ish wheels. Tony Hines"
More money for the Alco S2 and S4! Now if we could get Kato to tool an SW9 shell for the NW2 mechanism....
I don't know how "DCC Friendly" means "yeah, you can mill out some chases for the wires and solder in your own decoder." Maybe in this case "DCC Friendly" just means "this thing won't explode into burning bits of shrapnel if you try to convert it and you do it right."
I think one of those HO guys from Walthers should have to try the decoder install and then tell us how 'friendly' it is. Jason
What we need is someone who worked (works) on the inside at Walthers management to tell us once and for all what policy or attitude they have toward N scale in general. Whether that attitude or policy changes frequently. What influences their future products about N scale, even what they consider N scale's future to be. Just to know what the heck they trying to do (or not do) in N scale would be not only nice but welcome. With all other N mfrs we can pretty much figure out what the deal is. But Walthers is impenetrable, with incomprehensible actions that make Walthers such a pain for N scalers. And don't give me answers like "it's marketing" or "profitibility". They started doing a line of modern N passenger cars, then stopped after 3. What was the deal with that? What plausible plan of action did THAT scenario fit? Any whistleblowers there at WKW?
Does that count the Atlas First Generation locos then... ? Since the frames often split... and broke apart... and disintegrated...
Let's see... I can buy the new SW9 for $75 or the Kato for $79 (same E-tailer). What is a guy to do? The original release was a fairly decent engine, and if they changed the wheels and the worm, that is a step in the right direction. Too bad they kept the original brass tab pick-up design and failed to make them DCC ready. Advantage: Kato.
Mark, do you have one of the new run on order? I am curious to get your sage wisdom on whether it is different or not. Besides the couplers anyway.
Backshop, I am not a Walthers basher, nor do I think we will ever get a definitive statement of "where they are going in N scale." One reason is, I don't know that they know exacty what direction to take in N scale. I am not sure they need a spokesman, I think they need someone who just really has a gut feel for what the N scale market needs, since it seems as if their crystal ball is always a little cloudy...... Your example of those great passenger cars is a good one. It just seems to me that they have guessed the N scale market wrong far too often. It started, IMHO, with some of the freight car releases about 20 years ago. They came out with lower priced, less detailed models (of needed prototypes no less, like their PD Cov hopper) at exactly the same time the market was going towards more expensive, more detailed rolling stock as a preference. They dip their toes in locos since the purchase of LL, and the GP38-2 and 60 were pretty good locos. I think the GP38-2 was almost doomed to be a poor seller with Atlas already having that model, and having it in a plethora of road names over time. While those ran pretty similar, but pre DCC, it was just too much of a pain to try to match locos of different mfgs in a consist. They didn't max out the GP 60 sales by NOT doing the Wide Cab FRVM is doing now. THOSE would have sold - given SF was a big user of them. The Difco was a great car, and a unique body style, but not a real popular one on the prototype. Not sure if they were great was a step in the right direction. At least, I know I don't buy any rolling stock any more unless its a "new" body style that fits my era. I don't need passenger cars of name trains, but I think the passenger cars was always a limited market. Did they look at Kato's success but then follow their one at a time philosophy in HO? I don't think that worked in N when Kato was putting out whole trains and N scalers are used to 24 packs of even freight cars. So, I agree that whatever it is, they have just slightly missed the boat in N many times over the years when it comes to locos and rolling stock. They just aren't good enough overall to change my buying habits, and the free market can be pretty brutal. Rolling stock not what I need or just not good enough. Its that simple. But, they have done some nice stuff that should sell. If I were them, I would punt on locos, as I think our ingrained preferences to Atlas and Kato hurt them, unless they find a direction, like switchers or steam, where they could shine in a much needed market segment, not just put something else average out there. For example, if they figured a way to weight and slow gear the switchers, (i.e., upgrade the segment) they could probably put switcher after switcher out and dominate (especially since they don't need to run with other locos) Anyway, I am pleased that I can populate my layout with their structures, and understand why they don't do all of them in N, given the 25-33% market share. I am sad, but not angry, that they miss it on the locos and rolling stock. However, in reality, others have come in nicely in the niches left by Atlas and Kato, or IM and RC for rolling stock. We really don't need Walthers dabbling outside the structures to get what we want. I am (I suppose)a typical N scale customer who has rarely found their products worth purchasing. But, it does seem like perhaps they assigned the N scale side to an unfireable family member, and could use some new blood in picking N scale products. Obviously, something needs to change, as it seems they have forgotten the definition of insanity! (Actually, they keep trying slightly different things, most with the same result). I would rather see them be 100% successful in every product offering they make in N, even if it means limiting it to what they know best. Here's the good news about their supposed HO bias - I'm glad the HO side gives them enough financial power to keep trying. A smaller company would have been out of business or given up completely by now.
Yeah your right, to be accurate it should be titled " N-Scalers eat the dust at Walthers bye bye ". Walthers is a HO model railroad operation, that's their foundation of success. When N-scale came to be popular and a threat to business, Walthers wondered in to stay in the loop so to speak. Along the way they came across some avenues of promise because of their involvement. It looks as if that faded and faded fast. That only means one thing other than the economy, they don't have the right representative on the board for the future of N-Scale involving Walthers and or other board members. I don't want Walthers to fold by no means, they keep model railroading on the map, just not our scale so much. Actually I wish they would drop their N-Scale line completely, cause the only money I have spent with them in 14 years is their over priced N-Z catalogs. I'm sitting here right now looking at last years catalog and I can't see me paying $18.00 for another one. That won't happen anymore. JMO. Cliff
I don't think they really were at a disadvantage with locos. Life-Like was producing models and mechanisms that were the equal of Kato and Atlas, with releases such as the FM C-Liners and Erie-Builts. In the case of the C-Liners, they may even have been arguably better than most Katos, and the Erie-Builts were a model run unique to Life-Like that they definitely could have found a continuing market for. Their switchers are completely fine, as well, aside from the awkward, and fragile pickup system which is susceptible to damage. There is nothing wrong with their slow speed abilities. Their only real challenge, is the difficulty of converting them to DCC, which only really impacts someone who wants to go DCC on everything.
PGE, You might be right. I know my SW-9 and GP 60's are good locos, but I hesitate to buy too many of them, for reasons listed. It could be I'm NOT a typical N scale modeler, so projecting my likes may be completely wrong. Of course, I am backed up by all those "dump sales" so well documented by others in these forums, like the GP-20's for $10 or so at one point. But, even you allude to my point in your last PP - in general, they are offering "just another loco", perhaps slightly less than other brands, whereas I think they need to up the game a bit to be successful. I do give kudos to LL for being the first with really narrow handrails, but it didn't make me buy their SD7 over Atlas'. Also, while I picked on their rolling stock choices, and suggested they explore new areas, it would seem the C liner, FM, BL2, etc. were the way LL chose to go, providing lesser used proto locos to fill a niche. Don't know how those sold, and I don't know how well Walthers has done with steam. I still think its a better route, but also higher risk, and they need to choose wisely to follow that. Kato and Atlas seem to have the road engines covered. IM came in with a limited use SD40T and FVRM seems to do well with the GEVO despite the same potential mech mismatches, and will do with the GP60's, a natural extension from the Walthers line that they could have captilized on. Again, more sad than mad at what seem to be minor mis steps at Walthers.
