I am planning on a small HO narrow (009) DC layout and I've purchased Peco SL-E491/492 Electrofrog turnouts as I will be running short wheelbase locos. Attached is the layout I'm trying to achieve. Being a complete novice on electrical, I am confused on where to insulate the rails and where to add the feeders in order for this layout to work as I intend to. Many say to insulate all the frog rail points (maybe this is the case for DCC but not for DC?) but the Peco instructions says to only insulate certain areas, the information is somewhat conflicting and confusing. I do not wish to install any additional switches, I will manually throttle the turnouts and keep it as simple as possible. With this wiring scheme, it already seems like there's an issue. It looks like the feeder wires will power the siding and spur at all times, I want those unpowered if the turnouts are set to run on the mainline. Can someone take a look at this diagram and let me know if this is correct or even close? Much is appreciated! Peco Instructions
I've reached out to Peco and they suggested to add rail joiners and feeds to these areas. Just thought I'd post this so other people in the future can refer to. I think it makes sense now but I would've never been able to figure it out myself.
Yes, the second design wont cause any shorts, and the siding will be power routed so you can park an engine there while another one is running out on the loop.
My experience with the PECO electrofrog and insulfrog is the power routing becomes fussy, even in a clean house. Dirt and dust get into the areas where the point rails contact the main rails, and the locos stall or stutter. I developed a fix by soldering 30ga wires to the point rails under the switch, then to the main rails and insulate both of the inside point rails. No more stalling, consistent power feeds. I went through a half dozen PECO curved switches of different types bending and cleaning before I figured out what was wrong.
Not quite sure what you mean when you say, ". . . insulate both of the inside point rails." Do you mean the closure rails? The standard remedy is to cut the closure rails before the frog and add the wire connecting the closure/point rails to the adjacent stock rails. On an electrofrog switch the frog would have to be powered separately. The two rails beyond the frog will have the same polarity as the frog and therefore there needs to be insulated rail joiners on both rails. I use a DPDT switch with linkage to the throwbar to align the switch and at the same time change the polarity of the frog to the correct one.
Hi Sorry. It is one of the "clear to me..." things. What I meant was at the switch rail joints beyond the wing rails (that is, where there are two tracks) I put insulators on both of the interior rails. Both of the outer rails are a continuous connection. Power is fed from fine wires located under the switch soldered to the main line rails and the switch rails, thus permanently connecting the switch rails to their respective main rails. This ensures the power will flow through all the rails and the crossing correctly, and no shorts or stuttering. It gets around the problem of poor contact of the switch rails to the main rails. I use DCC, so no issues with power routing anywhere on my layout. Initially, I used miniature snap switches on the servos and additional control from the Arduinos to route the power, but this wiring solution allowed me to get rid of the switches, stop the problems with the PECO switches, and simplify the power routing.
Okay so I understand what you call the "inside point rails" are those two rails beyond the frog (away from the points side). If that is correct, they are commonly called the frog rails as they meet at the frog of the switch and they have to be gapped and/or use an insulated rail joiner. My question is about the two rails that meet at the frog on the other side. These are called the closure rails. On a standard electrofrog switch these rails get their power from which ever point rail is touching a stock rail so that both of these rails have the same polarity. (Note that I use only Peco electrofrog switches with a metal frog which gets power from the closure rails. I have no experience with insulfrogs.) But by adding a feeder to both closure rails in an electrofrog switch to its adjacent stock rails one would create a short at the frog unless you gap/insulate the closure rails before the frog. This renders the frog unpowered unless you add a separate feeder to the frog. Thus the DPDT switch I mentioned in my above post to feed power to the frog. In an insulfrog switch the frog is plastic and obviously unpowered so the separate feeder is not necessary.
Hi again I used my rewiring method on insulfrog, electrofrog and one unifrog with the feeders and have no issues with the power feeds. I do not have any insulators on the main track rails, only on the frog rails as I mentioned. It was exasperating trying to get PECO switches to work correctly- not shorts, but they would rarely, if ever, connect the closure rails even using servo drives to ensure tight mechanical connection. So, until I figured out the failure mechanism being the poor connection of the closure rails to the main rails, I bought all three types and messed around. You have jogged a memory- I did cut the electrofrog and unifrog frog rails underneath the frog and soldered in wires to jump the frog. I think I added some CA glue to the top side of the frog rails at the junctions also to ensure no connections. Sorry, memory fades fast these days...
Okay, When I first started to accumulate my RR 'stuff". I was advised by others who had considerably more experience than me to go with Peco track and Peco C55 turnouts. This was in the pre DCC age when locomotives did not have all wheel pickup and having insulated frogs could stop a locomotive, especially one with a short wheelbase like an 0-4-0 switcher. Back then one could get Peco C55 switches for about $10.00. Never used any other except some Kato for the holiday layout under the Christmas tree.
