Power Packs

I will be in need of a dual power pak for my layout very soon, and I was wondering if anyone has a used one in proper working order that they could part with very cheap?

Ken

 

Hi Ken,
A dual power pack is probably not suitable for Z scale as there is no built in stop to prevent using too much current and burning up the Z motors. Micro Trains makes a modified power pack just for Z, although you would have to use two of them. I see them advertised for under $40 on the web.

John

 

I have two microtrains power packs now running my z scale trains and both don't have stops. I never have have them up more then half way on the dial and I've never had a problem with them. A dual powerpack would be used the same way. I'm not stupid. I know about the engines in Z scale. I can't run 4 lines with two packs thus the dual.

 

I don't think you are stupid, and I don't think John does either. I think he just tried to help bcause of the question.

I hope I can help here. Before I went to the Jorgers I used the modified MT controller. They work well, the modification does not have stops per say, they just retro fit the controller knob with the face plate to keep it from going past a high voltage is all. So you do not see a "quote" stop persay.

As far as the dual controllers go I used an MRC dual controller on my first layout for a short bit because I had a dual man line and just wanted one power supply. My experience was they did not run the locos as well as the MT, and certainly not better than the Jorgers or the snail speed controller. Although they are better than the white Marklin.

Now mind you I have kids, so every now and then I let them run the trains. One time one of my sons turnned the knob all the way up for a quick bit and I panicked. I turnned it off asap, and fortunately did not damage the loco...however that was enough of a scare for me and I have not used that power supply since. It is regulated to running my N scale these days. And for N it does a fine job.

 

Joe, summed up nicely. Ken, it is nice maybe to have both in the same housing but I would like to say two things:

- The bigger power packs (the duals or HO) not only have a bit more voltage (up to 50% lets say), which you can avoid by simply not turning them up ('cept for Joe's kids' experience) but they also have a LOT more current available than a Z pack. So, if you loco derails in a turnout, etc., it can potentially damage wheel wipers, etc. much easier than the low power Z packs.

- the Joerger or Zthek Snail Speed are really small and can easily fit within the size of the MRC or märklin power pack. They will run your locos VERY slow (when you want them to) and just as fast as the other power packs. But the MRC, märklin and other commercial packs will do better with several MTL F7s or märklin locos as they draw approximately 5x the current of an MTL GP, SD40 or AZL loco. The older F7 and märklin's use Permanent Magnet motors.

Just some info.
.

 

I didn't mean to insult anyone. I have been on this board long enough to get a lot of info re: train speeds and voltages and so on. I have learned through other members experience about increasing voltages beyond recommended specs in as far as burn outs are concerned and I have been very careful with my trains.
If you look at the face of a MTL Tech 220 or any of them for that matter, the dial reads from 0 and up. I have two of these now, and I never run my trains above the 60 mark on the transformer which corresponds roughly to around 9 volts which is within recommended guidelines. I've been running these since I started my layout and never yet had any problems. Mind you, I've been going to attach some kind of guard to the face of these packs to prevent me or anyone else for that matter from turning the throttle up beyond the 60 but just haven't gotten round to it yet.
As for these duals, I am well aware that they have slightly higher voltages and such, and if I were to get one, I'd have to test it out on my trains to see where the stop should be. I'm guessing probably lower then 60 on the other packs.
I talked extensively with a couple of gents at the recent train show I was in and they were running the same transformers with N scale and during our conversation they both said that I should have no probs running my trains with the same duel transformer as they were using as long as I kept the voltage down. A volt meter will give me the answers that I need.
So believe me when I say that I know what you all are saying here and I know what to do to in order to keep well within the specs of these engines.

 

Yes, you can spend $63 for a MRC 280, or spend $69 for 2 Ztrak snail controllers, or spend $40 for the MTL-MRC pak. The Ztrak option wins here with better controls over Z trains.

 

Myself as a "stinkin cheese eater" I began using a french designed power pack, not specifically designed for Z scale. Its max voltage is 12 volts and max amp, I don't recall how much but rather more than requested for a few Maxon or Faulhaber-equipped modern MTL or AZL locomotives.

As I wanted to avoid excessive voltages I set a scale on my power pack using a small voltmeter, in order to set a mark upon 8V.

However I'm pretty sure that was using that power pack which made me ending with 2 fried AZL locos. Especially one of my first SD70s, those from the first run and that are very slow.... I'm pretty sure that I went over these loco's max voltage or input.

As a consequence I'm now using a specifically Z scale-dedicated power pack (one from Passmann for instance) and I definitly recommand that for you all fellow z-scalers.

Dom

 

Thanks Dom.

I'll check into that.

K

 

Regarding power packs, has anyone tested the Rokuhan RC-01 controller?
http://www.rokuhan.com/english/products/controller/

It sells for about $68 at Hobby Search.

 

I have two of them and I like them they are quite versatile as they an run on batteries or from a wall transformer. They are electronic controller so not just a pot controlling the DC so they operate from true )vdc to 10vdc and are smooth in operation. I can make the Micro Trains GP's crawl with them and I can run them in pairs and triples no problems have been encountered and no disasters with shorts either. So I use Rokuhan track and Rokuhan controllers but I also use the controllers of Akia (PLus Up and RealZJ and the those of Crown (PRMLoco)They are all transistor based controllers and seem to be more than adequate. I use north American wall transformers for power supply at 9vdc and 500 ma. and if I do not have a 110vac source I use battery packs qhich I made up with 4 x 9vdc batteries in parralel with a plug like those on the wall transformer to plus inot the controller. The rokuhan controller uses 8x AA batteries and I find it more than adequate to operate a 2 day show from battery power. THe 4 x 9v battery pack is probably overkill as they seem to last for quite a fewshows before they start to run downso maybe just a single battery or a pair would be sufficient. THe only engine I use more than this to control is the venerable F7's which I use a 12vdc controller to run. I am slowly converting them to GP power using a shortened chassis from a GP.It would be nice to see MTL produce such a chassis but for now it is withiin my abilities. With the wide body you can certainly pack on a lot fo weight and they can pull just as much as their original cousins but with much lower current settings.

 

Hi guys. This has been a very informative thread for me, but if you don't mind I have a question as well. I am an N scale modeler, but I have been thinking for quite some time about getting some Z scale to run on top of my bookshelves and the hutches on my desk to watch and play with while I do homework and such. Now that I am getting some, my question is this:

I have a Railpower 1300 that I thought about using for my new Z scale stuff. Will this be way too much or can I hook it up, turn it up to say 8v, then mark it and be fine?

The loco I am getting is a MicroTrains SD40-2 in Conrail Blue. It's not the NS or UP SD70 I want, but it's a start! Please let me know if I will be able to safely run it with this pack or if I need to get a new one before playing with it.

 

Interesting. Thank you Garth for this feedback. So it seems to be a good choice when you need to run with batteries.

That's also interesting Did you post details of this F7 repowering operation somewhere?

 

Well, much to everyone's dismay or surprise depending on how you look at it, I finally managed to snag myself a twin power pack. I immediately put it into operation on the line that I intended on using and I looked for the power drain from one to the other when running two trains. Know what? There wasn't any. I studied it very carefully and I found no indications at all of any power drain. Or robbing power from one side to work the other. Quite the contrary. I found consistent output on both sides. I put 2 engines at opposite ends of the line, and then fired up the pack. Starting from a dead stop, I moved each throttle together very slowly observing the performance of each set of engines. Aside from a tiny bit of hesitation from one engine, it's always the same one, they all moved identically as I increased the power right up to the desired speed I set for my engines. It was great. Now of course this was with my 4 GP35's, but I got this pack specifically to run my GP9's ans SD75's on the same line at the same time. This line will be blocked about half way between the farthest points in the loops. So I tried them and as I expected, the SD75's overtook the GP9's after a number of times around. So with this twin pack, I can adjust the speed of the 75's when needed so as not to overtake the 9's. It works as I expected it to. I know what some of you are going to say, but I want the manual control over my engines. I want to be like the engineer in the cab adjusting the speed of the train as needed. The only problem I have now is trying to control 4 trains at the same time.
I'm busier then a 2 peckered owl in a nudist colony. I need another set of hands.

 

Ken,
Your operational duties could be vastly simplified by using DCC to control each locomotive as though they had their own engineers.

DCC allows one man to operate several locomotives independantly of the others or speed match several in a consist AND eliminate the block wiring that is rather arcaic in today's world of train operaion.

Something to consider maybe?

 

Loren:

I'm quite familiar with DCC and frankly I'm sick of hearing about it. If I had wanted DCC I would have gone DCC when I started my layout. It is just too damned expensive for my budget. I don't have thousands and thousands of bucks like everyone on this board seems to have. I'm a pensioner with a fixed income and only 60.00 per month for my trains. DCC would eat up all of that and more. No thanks. I have other things that are more of a priority then DCC. Now if someone where to offer me a complete DCC system plus all the goodies that go with it to convert all my engines to DCC for 60.00 or less, I might consider it. But since that ain't gonna happen, DCC is not for me. So with all due respect my friend, I ask that this matter of DCC be dropped.

Thanks
Ken

 

'Klunk'

That was the sound of the DCC idea hitting the ground )

You mentioned lack of money for the 'fancy stuff' so to speak.

You're not alone.. This will cause a frown on Joe's face, but the only MTL product I've purchased for myself in the last several years is some flex track for more modules. The money goes for scenery supplies and lumber, glue and such.

I'm with you on this one.........wish I had lots of money to buy all the nice stuff so many are able to afford. It's true, I do make some money from their purchases, but not near enough to feel I can spend it on the same.

It's kind of like the expert auto mechanic who everyone takes their car to yet the mechanic has the worst running clunker on the block.......go figure.

Now, when and if I get rich, well, just don't be standing in front of me when I hear about some beautiful steam being released by AZL.....I'll flat run over you getting to the head of the line. May have to sell Karin's cats to get the money, but hey, I'd also save on cat litter.... )

 

I understand limited budgets. However, the application that you ask for will keep you continuously busier than an octopus out of water. Even if you got into a routine with a particular set of locos, if you ever changed the locos or sequencing, you'd be back to the one armed paper hanger in a wind storm. Besides, even the same model loco from the same manufacture from the same production run from the same assembler person will have enough variations that lap after lap will begin to show their differences in speed.

I know you are one a budget but hopefully someone will volunteer a DCC Starter system for you. An NCE Power Cab can be found for ~$125 if you search around. I've seen MRC's Prodigy Express series as cheap as $100. But keep an eye out at the train shows, maybe your local NMRA group or others can contribute. Decoders are $20-$30 so maybe 2 to start with and then one a month.

This way, any loco can be run anywhere at any speed or direction. Then you can sit and relax and enjoy running the little critters.
.

 

This comment is addressed to anyone OTHER than Ken who might be considering DCC. The cost to get started is in the order of the price of a good engine. NCE sells a very nice controller that has a cost of about $180 street including Tax and/or shipping. I do have one plus some other NON-necessary stuff, plus some Lenz plus some wireless. But Challengers cost $1,800 and up so the argument that Z is out-of-the-world expensive is true IF you buy a fleet of Challengers vs some plain old MTL equipment. DCC decoders can run $30 OR LESS per engine. Bottom line, if someone is looking toward DCC, it is NOT "thousands of bucks" but in the order of a few hundred. If you can afford Z [ or N or HO, then DCC is just another piece of equipment ]. Just making a positive comment to others who may be considering the leap to DCC.

...don