Problem with GP35

Are you saying that I could have cleaned these engines without taking the fames apart and removing the trucks?

 

Yes. I even clean "frozen" Marklin steam locomotives with a couple of good contact cleaner "bath", and an air nozzle (a cheap dead air brush). With today's more advanced lubricants, like the NG Jel ACT-1111, using a slim syringe, almost every locomotive can be re-lubricated without removing anything. Make sure the contact cleaner is not "extra strength". I use Pure Tronics brand, nice large size cans for about half price of fancy brands.

 

Lajos,
I give your response two thumbs up for your suggestion of using contact cleaner to free those stubborn locos. This technique sure beats "no disassemble #5"

Thank you for sharing a great modeling tip. I'd send you a couple of 'atta boys', but you'd just probably spray them too and muck them up )

 

It is hard to understand where a GP35 makes noise. The Coreless motor makes NO noise, compared to a Permanent Magnet (PM) motor like the MTL F7 or Märklin products. If it is the trucks (where the gears are), they can be cleaned, carefully, with spray or liquid cleaners and then relubed (trying to keep from getting the liquid up into the motor assembly). It is NOT good for either Coreless or PM moter to strip the lubrication without knowinig that they are properly relubed.

Then again, it may be debri up in the gears. At shows, we can collect an AMAZING amount of dust, track ballast, etc. Get a magnifying viewer and look into the trucks.

I assume this is recent?

What kind of Power pack are you using ? if a Pulse Power type, these can make 60 or 120 Hertz (a.k.a. 'cycles per second') and this may be what you hear.
.

 

Well that's just peachy. All that work for nothing. I wish I had known about this before I took them completely apart. Would canned air work on this as well?

 

Jeff: It wasn't the motor that was making that dreadful noise. I was definitely coming from the area when the truck meets the frame. It sounded like scrapping like the worm gear rubbing on the frame. I took it apart and swapped the trucks around and the noise disappeared. I also loosend off the screws so the frames weren't so tight together. This helped with the speed issue. The power packs I use are the MRC 220. I've been using these since the beginning and never had a problem with them. I don't know about the pulse power unless you are talking about the momentum selector. Thanks anyway though.

 

Ken,
I've seen your noisy truck issue in S scale...it seems there that after a while the gearing changes shape (or whatever) and a lead truck wants to be the lead truck. I haven't seen it in Z because I tend to mark my trucks and replace them from the position they came from. BTW reading this thread I think you did well in the cleaning process...50% of your locos worked first time after cleaning. That's better than my first time (0 for 3). But it gets easier after that.
And good luck on your first show.

As far a alternate cleaning methods, the ultrasonic bath with distilled water works just fine (motor and all) so long as it alll gets dried out well after cleaning. The electronics industry has been doing it for years. As for the contact cleaner, I would be cautious. Contact cleaner works by "converting" the crud into fine particles. You still need to get all these particles out of the gearwork.

Mark

 

Thanks Mark. This is actually our third show. The second this year in Calgary. Someday if we can ever raise enough capital to buy a truck of somekind, we hope to do shows in Red Deer, Edmonton, and Vancouver, but that's a long way down the line. Pardon the pun. I'd like to get a 53ft, semi trailer and build a mobile layout so we can go not only to shows, but to carnivals, special events, and other such venues. But it's only a dream.

Not knowing any better, I took these engines apart right down to the nitty gritty. I did not disassemble the trucks since I figured that since I could see the gears and the wheels once they were separated from the frame, I could clean them ok. I took a very fine, jeweller's flat screwdriver and ran the worm gears from one end to the other. You would not believe the crap I got off of them. Fuzz, hair, bits of foam, and just plain dirt. They shine now. I also cleaned the inside of the frames where these gears ride. I cleaned the shafts, and bushings, and then the truck wheels, wheel wipers, and gears. Mostly fuzz and hair on these parts. Then put them back together. I didn't lubricate anything because I didn't have anything to do it with so they are probably operating dry. After this show, I'll go back and add a drop or two of oil to the gears. The hardest part in cleaning these was getting the shell off the chassis. It ain't as easy as it looks in the instructions. I did a bit of damage in doing so, but it was repairable with Krazy Glue. As I've already mentioned in this thread, the only problem I have now, is the circuit board on one engine. I just doesn't seem to want to work properly unless I squeeze the point where the the springs connect from the motor. But that problem is academic now since I broke one spring and lost the other. So I have one engine down. New springs on order. I tried what the others suggested about making it work and it just refuses to run unless I squeeze at that point. Hardly practical. Hopefully the new springs will make things right. I didn't realize, until it was all over, that I didn't need to take the frames apart to clean the worm gears as Lajos says. That would have made the job much easier and faster. But I have to ask, how else would I get all the crap off the worm gear? Oh well, I'll know better for next time. I still have 4 GP9's to tackle but that will be after this show.

 

Schematics are better than long sentences to help understand:

-Steady DC (from a battery or from a battery set):



-Smooth DC (from a smoothed DC power supply):



-Varying DC (from a non smoothed DC power supply - typically an AC power supply with a diode bridge):



-Pulse power:



With the first 3 systems above, voltage variation is obtained by "lowering" or "highering" the signal. On the opposite with pulse power you have no "height" variation. Thus voltage is constant. Some powerpacks destined for modelrailroading use this technology. The loco's motor speed will be controlled with a variation of the intervals between "columns". The closer the "columns" to each other, the higher motor rotation speed. The further the "columns" to each other, the lower the motor rotation speed. However pulse power is normally not recommended for our tiny Z scale motors because constant voltage voltage from the packs using this technology is oftenly rated to 12V, the normal max voltage for S, HO and N scale... As 12V is higher than what is recommended for most Z scale motors (that are rated to 8, 9 or 10V), you have a serious risk of overheating/melting locos' motors and shells.

Hope this helps,

Dom

 

Thanks Dom.