Today I was running one of my freight cars that had Proto 87 wheels. It is an Atlas grain hopper and I think it has Proto 87 wheels. At least the wheel tread is thinner than all my other wheel sets. This car operated well on the layout except for two places. My question is, should Proto 87 wheels operate on regular H0 scale track? Is there something special about constructing track to accept these wheels? Should I just change out the Proto 87 wheel sets and forget it? I do like their appearance. My next issue is how to gauge the wheels sets. Can you adjust the gauge on Proto 87 wheel sets or is it permanently set? How do you adjust them? Finally, for the track work on the club layout, the two bad spots were ever so slightly too wide. My wheel sets were ever so slightly too narrow. Thus, the problem occurring at those points. Of course, the non-Proto 87 wheel sets had no proiblem. Thank you for your solutions and opinions on this issue.
Years ago a friend tested his steam engine at my Naumburg. It run with PROTO87 wheels over the turnouts. But at the single slip turnout it derailed. Problem : the distance from wheel back to wheel back is another. H0 fine wheels run without problems, they are smaller than usual wheels. Look at the NMRA site for the data. Wolfgang
I would expect Proto 87 wheels to have considerable difficulty with all but the finest of commercially available turnouts or with Proto 87 turnouts. The reason is that the slim profile doesn't lend itself to supporting the wheel as is crosses the frog. Commercial turnouts of the $9-15 variety have wide channels in the frog so that they pass muster with 90% of all users reliably...users whose wheel sets have a wider range of dimensions to accommodate at those frogs. A well made frog is meant to support the tire surface as the wheel crosses the gap between frog point and closure rails. Where this support is offered is at the wing guards, the bent portion of the closure rail that runs beside the frog point. If you want a visual of this, go to handlaidtrack.com and watch Tim Warris run a wheel set through one of his Fast Tracks turnouts in one of the videos...he explains the problem very clearly.
I checked the site and got the data. I found that my wheels might be a little tight. Then I realized that they could be adjusted. I have done so and will see how they work on Wednesday. More then. My impression from the NMRA site is that properly gauged track of any type will allow P87 wheels to operate. Of course, the operative word is "properly" and I already know some of our club track is not correct. I will check that on Wednesday, too. Of course we have 300 turnouts or so and only two are bad, so that is certainly survivable. To be more specific, we use hinged point type turnouts (for the most part) at SAMRA. The hinged part has bowed out some so the gauge is a little too wide right after you pass the points going towards the frog. I am new to this H0 stuff and I thank you for your answers.
We have at the FREMO a group with European "PROTO:87", FREMO:87. Another group call themselves H0pur. They build modules for this! There're commercial turnout sets and they solder them. E.g. look for HP1: Eisenbahnmodellbau heute, Fachzeitschrift für Modellbau and "Weichen". The pictures will tell. But with 1:87 you have someone to change your steamers into 1:87. There's a lot wrong. Therefore we have the H0-fine group. Better wheels but not to rebuild every engine very expensive. With diesels this is better, you change the wheels. But even with H0-fine the guys solder the turnouts or rebuild commercial ones like this one with his station: or another station: Wolfgang
Perhaps you had code 88 wheels, they are 2,2mm wide instead of the usually code 110 wheels with 2,8mm. Wolfgang
Wolfgang: That could be. Actually, I'm not sure what that is, but one of the guys last night said the same thing. The turnouts I was working with last night were out of gauge (too wide in the movable points section), so that is why I was having trouble running the train.
Yes, it's the turnout. But if the turnout is a bit out of gauge, the thinner thread is more problematic. Wolfgang
Al Boos brought these to the club. I have learned that the back-to-back wheel spacing is the same regardless of the type of wheel. Of course, that is obvious if they are all operated on the same gauge track. From back to front: Normal wheel - standard H0 scale tread .110 wheel tread .088 wheel tread (Proto 87) Also notice the flange differences.
It's not obvious and isn't true either. Have a look through the various NMRA standards (it's not very easy ). Remember that the outside of the flanges must fit between the rails, which for H0/00 are always about 16.5mm gauge, regardless of fineness. So the thicker the flanges (see photo above) the smaller the back to back will be. This is why 'standard' model track has wider flangeways between the rail and check/guide rails, and conversely why standard wheels will often not work on finescale specialwork. Slightly related; the standards for track have the same (very nearly) dimension for min. gauge, but the max is a bit smaller for the finer scales, which corresponds with the narrower tread of the wheels.
I am having a similar problem with one of my container well car sets. One set I got used with the proto 87's on it, and every once in awhile it derails at a turnout. The well cars are too light which doesn't help anything either. I'm just planning to change them out, I've had very little trouble with any of my other rolling stock since I switched everything to regular metal wheels. I thought it was occuring at the frog, but closer inspection(and happening to be right there at the right time) revealed the small flange picked the points of the turnout. Being I have a ground throw on it, I'll check it that it's pulling the points tight now that I think of it....
You might have to dress the ends of your points with a needle file to make them a bit finer (sharper). Fine scale wheel flanges are much more susceptible to track imperfections such as blunt ends of point blades. Jim.
The Proto87 wheels are not "code88" but are "code 64" / back to back = 15,5 mm The P:87 cannot run on "standard" points. In HO "standard", the wheels are code 110 / back to back 14,3 mm. You can also yse code 88 wheels / back to back 14,7 mm ... they can run on standard points. You can find all what you need to built your Proto87 turnouts at the PROTO:87 STORES http://www.proto87.com/index.htm If you can read french, you'll find the Proto87 standards on the Proto87 International Team web site http://proto87.team.pagesperso-orange.fr/Proto87/NormesP87.html
