Got my Heritage 2-8-8-2 from P2K today. Nice, but not as wonderful as I had heard. Detail was just barely better than Rivarossi and hooking the thing up to the tender was just more complicated than it had to be. I would have to say that for the money I am more impressed with the Rivarossi than the P2K. The Rivs pulled better and quieter for my money. Anyone else been able to compare the two products or have a different experience. Thanks.
Sorry BNSF, but I will have to strongly disagree with you here.I have had both the newest run of the Riv Y6b and the Proto Y3. Detial wise there is no comparison, Proto wins hands down. LOTS of applied detail vs not as much molded on detail. Running wise they were pretty close IMO. With the Proto getting just a bit better slow spead running. OK cost wise you have me ,but I would rather pay a bit more for IMO a better product. I have one of the Proto 0-8-0s in layaway, and expect it will run as well if not better. The loco-tender connection is a bit complicated, but once together mine stays that way.....Mike
I don't own a P2K,2-8-8-2, but I have had 5 bad operating experiences with Rivarossi. The first four were returned to Model-Expo within the 30 day period and the fifth is like putting humpty-dumpty back together again. After the first 30 days, Rivarossi's warranty was vague and limited. With LifeLike,their P1K and P2K carries a lifetime warranty and I will assume their 2-8-8-2 is the same. Since I do not have DCC, I relied upon MR's March 2000 review and stayed away because of the stated 54MPH limited top speed which would put me on a colision course with more than one engine on a track, BUT the review was very complimentary to LifeLike.
All I will add is that if the P2K 2-8-8-2 and their 0-8-0 has the same motor its a poor one for excessive heat! I had interchanged motors from a 0-8-0 and a new 5400 EL-5 from Rivarossi and the Ross out shines the P2K in running capabilities by a long shot!! The new Ross don't get hot, just bearly warm (luke warm) compared to the P2K motor excceding the heat limit of the Ross. Sorry guys I have to stand behind the Ross. I like my motors cool. When they get hot you could say that the commutator and brushes are done for in strenght. Also the heat will evenually warp the commutaor contacts to the brushes and make excessive noise and weaken the springs. Don't take me wrong though I am only comparing the new Rivarossi's with the P2K Heritage. Not the older AHM/Rivarossi stuff. It wouldn't last against the P2K. I will admit that the older stuff isn't the greatest unless you know how to retro fit the old power to a newer stronger motor which i've done and plan on doing to all my older AHM/Rivarossi stuff. I might let one factory to show the difference between the new repowering to the old power. But all that repowering to my own is a future plan. Once I find the motor I want to use. Just for the sake of power in pulling, not speed. Steamers look better at lower speeds then to run them at a high balling speed anyway...... But thats my opinion so... [ 08 May 2001: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]
Well I will have to concede that the P2K Y3 has more detail than the Rivs. I was comparing my Big Boy and Challenger but neglected to mention it previously. I just don't see paying a hundred dollars more for the extra stuff. Plus now I am having to send the P2K back to LifeLike for warranty repairs. The driver bar and another valve bar are scrapping together and in reverse they hit together and snap apart. LL said it should be back to me in 2wks. None of my Rivs had any problems to date. I don't run them that much though. I hope that things get better than this. So far my two most desired locos have had to go back to the shop for repairs before the second day of running!!!! Very frustrating! EM1: I hadn't even contemplated the engine heat situation. I will be monitoring it on my P2K when it gets back--thanks for educating me on this.
I only found that to hold true on the 0-8-0 P2K motor. Now for the Y3 I can't say because I haven't had one yet, but if its the same motor which is a good bet that it is be carefull. Now for me to say anything against the P2K Diesel loco's I can't the motors in them seem to hold out great under long periods of run time. They run great! My P2K diesels are some of the best I own in Diesel loco's. You know I have heard that the motor that Rivarossi used in the 5400 series loco's (sold in the US by Model Expo) has been beaten with the motor change they made in the new Allegheny. How true this is i'm not so sure of. Its supposted to be stronger, quieter, and be able to run at even slower speeds then the motors used in the Model Expo Rivarossi loco's. I also heard that the side rods on the Rivarossi Allegheny is plastic! If thats the case they made it worse with the plastic side rods!!!! They will get hot and distort and even melt under heat. That might have saved me a bunch of money too!!!! I wouldn't buy the thing with plastic side rods for the fact of the matter of the heat problems on them. You'll be continuously repairing side rods from all the friction in the movement spots of them. And after years of running the plastic will evenually wear thin and be almost worthless. I got a few old Rivarossi loco's from the 60's and the 70's and not one has any sign of wear on the rods and I run them for 8 and 10 hours a day and I have no idea how long the fellow run them before I got them. But the nickle rods can't be beat in durability.
I've never noticed my Y3s getting warm, and I usually pull long hopper trains with them. I dont have my 0-8-0 yet soo I guess we will have to see about this one....Mike
You got me thinking on the Allegheny plastic driver arm. I will have to contact my source about that when I seem them the next time. That's the one great thing about the Rivs is that metal. By the way, why did Modelexpo's Rivs come with packaging that celebrated the 50th anniversary? Or were these locos made in 1995? I will get back to you about what I find out on the Allegheny plastic side arms. We can't have that.
bnsf, I believe those 50th ann. were manufactured in 1995!!!! And they ran an extended sale on everything in 1995 for the whole year if I remember correctly! And boy was it a sale Rivarossi sold more trains in 1995 then ever before or even after and out sold every company period for the year! Thats when the gettin was good and alot got and hobby shops got richer!!!! I think my parts supplier for the older AHM stuff told me that AMH/IHC even had a memorable sale to for Rivarossi as well in 1995!!!! Which amazed me! It was Rivarossi's 50th Annaversary...1945 to 1995 I hope they keep the tradition going and keep up the work like they once had in the Model Expo loco's!!!! Wouldn't make me mad one bit..... [ 09 May 2001: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]
Mike_C, How long do you run it though??? I mean at a time without letting it have air???? I run my Ross loco's 8 to 10 hours straight and not once did any of them break a sweat yet. And that was all day non stop, with 20 to 25 cars on it. The only one I got thats been giving me problems in heating is one of my EM-1's that was a Big Boy. But its manufacturing date is 1960 so I can't complain its allowed to at that age! I believe it was run litterlly to death before I bought it so..... But for what I got in it to just buy it i'm not going to complain again I mean WOW $30 in a Rivarossi Big Boy that I bought a year or 2 ago. I wouldn't ever pass up a deal like that EVER! The body itself is worth $30 if nothing else! And besides it will run good for about 2 hours or so........ Before it begins to get warm. So its not helpless or anything.
That's what I thought. I got in on the final sale that Expo gave before they quit carrying the line. They were advertised as new, but when I got it I figured they were ones not sold from a few years ago. Kinda made me mad a bit, but then I thought about it a bit and figured, hey I have the 50th anniversary stuff. They should have been more forthcoming in the advertising though. I got my BigBoy #4003 and my Challenger #3967 for less that $150 each---couldn't ask for more than that. I don't run them but every once in a while, but they sure sound strong and are real smooth. Completely different from the P2K that I got! Not even close! I was expecting to be really impressed, but was pretty let down in the end. Now it's back at the factory getting fixed---we'll see how long that takes and if they do it right. I bought it new for $205.00 so I can't complain there. I thought maybe it had been used, but I checked it out completely and not a sign of use. I was just sad about the driver arms rubbing together. Just like my Kato---2 days and to the shop it goes. I am going to see my Riv contact today and am going to ask about those driver arms being plastic----I don't think he knows about that and if he did he wouldn't like it. Just because he is a consultant doesn't mean they have to tell him everything I guess. I'll get back on it later.
EM1: Here is what I found out. They are apparently upgrading the engine so it will pull better and operate better at slow speeds. Now for the plastic driver arms: I was told that the prototype model had metal arms and that they are now trying to get Riv to make "cast" arms instead of the "stamped" arms. They are supposed to be beefing up the whole driver mechanism to be better than the last ones. I sure hope that it is true because that will make it one good engine and worth the higher price tag. I hope this makes you feel better about the thing.
Hey John, I only run then for an hour or two at the most. If i'm in the layout room longer than this I usually will run a couple of different consists. I have a couple of real nice 4-8-0s that run like clocks. So its kinda hard to not run different trains. 8-10 hours HMMMM that would give most any loco a real workout ....Mike
Rivarossi does make a good product, the detail is worth it, the performance is outstanding, and the quality is supurb. But don't fully go with one product, just search other products until you find which one suits you best. I own a Rivarossi Big Boy and I'm happy with it (been wanting one since 96).
Yeah my loco's get a workout at the shows I attend. If that don't bring out the truth on a companies craftmanship I don't know anything that will!!! Anyway on the Rivarossi 2-6-6-6 Allegheny I hope they keep to their old ways and keep the rods stamped or cast either one as long as they are METAL of some type! As long as they go "ting" if I would flick one of the rods with my finger i'm happy! That is a Rivarossi trade mark with the metal side rods. I hope and pray they never decide to change it. I haven't had any problems with their side rods hitting in any place. I can't say that for Bachmann or Mantua steam loco's I have even twisted Mantua's rods already! I was kinda disapointed at them for that concidering I payed $195 for a 4-6-2!!!! And tore it up within the first hour of running it, half of my basic "break in" time. I run my loco's 2 hours by them self before they even get a chance at a whole train. Rivarossi has not once gave me that problem. But still I like Mantua! I buy them when I have the cash to. As well as Rivarossi or the old AHM/Rivarossi I buy them every chance I get. I even as far as went and traded a few locos for Rivarossi and Mantua loco's!!!! All depends if its something I have been looking for and the first chance for a trade and its a good trade it will happen. Just one catch though It has to be steam for me to do any trading! I will buy diesels but not trade them. They are easier to buy then to trade anyway, but steam on the other hand is a different story, if its worth it to me and the fellow that has what I want i'll offer him a trade of something, with the same price value. I'm a "Horse Trader" A "Iron Horse" for anything thats steam, wether its steam or diesel. [ 11 May 2001: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]
I have three of the Proto 2000 Y3s and they are some of the nicest running engines that I have. As for the low max speed, these engines did not run over 45 in real life. They were built for low speed operation with long trains. I would compare these engine to brass engines and not to the Rivarossi engines. They have lots of seperate detail and do not suffer from the many inaccuracies that some of the Riv engines have. My brand new Riv y6b has really no seperate detail, while my Y-3s have more than I can count. The Riv molds are from the 60s which means the detail is not nearly as crisp. When I first saw the Y-3, I though it was brass engine that Life-Like was using for their ads until the real thing was produced. Then when I got my first one I was blown away. The Rivarossi engines are nice engines, but the detail level just isn't there. IMHO opinion the PROTO 2000 Y-3 is as good as a any of the brass engines that I own. Eric
Hey bnsf4354! I too got in on the Rivarossi closeout sale at M.E. and bought two (Challenger Excursion UP#3979) & Y6b Mallet NW#2174), and discovered that the Challenger was sold as a remanufactured unit (that's what the 'RM' in the M.E. catalogue # meant). I also have a 'Big Boy' (UP#4005) with the older motor design, and I have to say I'm not in the least disappointed with any of these engines. Well...maybe with the very dim headlight in the Challenger & Big Boy (so I replaced the bulbs with Athearn bulbs - made a BIG difference!). Other than that they're the pride of my fleet, although they only come out for special occasions (due to the scarcity of a reliable coal supplier, you know...). Only problem I have with P1/2K - the light board draws too much power. That's why they're slower than your other manufacturers, people. My favourite diesel is still an Atlas GP40 (CN #4008). Great detail, superb slow speed performance!
