Fellow Rails,I'm new to TBoard but KNOW you can answer this..A nice guy I'd met last week at a MRRC near LA stated that the newer Rivarossi steam locos run A1,tip-top..But he said it depended on the serial Number..He was about to fill me in on this but our attention got diverted and I never got the dope...As I am approaching the purchase of a new steamer,can anyone lay this out here?And was he completely correct in that description?..I know how finicky steam can be and love sloooooow movement with no binding..Also Rivs still have reasonable prices... Thanks,Mark PS.Attention!! Please read next post before responding.
Riv Quest II Gents,a quirky thing occurred...immediately after posting the above guestion I stumbled upon an entire treatise in another thread all about Rivarosssi and it being sold and such and also some vast explainations by Watash as to how the manufacturing of the stuff has gone down so much in quality,etc...So,perhaps I should have looked before I lept into my Riv question above...But,still,is it possible to find one on a shelf in a store,read a serial number,and know it's a GOOD one,series-wise,say?I do want an Allegheny or a Y6b,my favorite articulated..Mark
It is not so much the serial number, it is the driver flanges you want to look at. If the wheel flanges look like the old Lionel 'long' flanges, the Rivarossi probably still has the old pancake motor, and those flanges will bump up over most plastic turnout frogs! You will be pretty safe if the wheel flanges look more like a 'scale' size as on the latest Atlas and Kato diesel engines, (about .028" long) see? The old long flange wheeled models were made to run on .100" high track. If you are going to use .080, .075, or .055" track, you will need the more to scale NMRA recommended 'RP-25' type flanges. Be VERY careful of eBay engines!
I have two of the 70s (?) vintage 4-4-0s and one 2-4-0. These are the types with the motor in the tender and a worm gear to the loco. I never had any problems with them. Even though I got them used they ran smooth, quiet and slow when needed. John
Watash,I'm well aware of flange size,how it looks and how too large won't run on lower code rail,etc.In fact my eye first goes right to the flanges when at a store or club visit..I HATE those big knife-like flanges on say,Lionel or LGB stuff...And certainly on our HO equipment..So,if I get you right,if a Riv has nice, low(RP25 or such)flanges it's thus of the newer and therefore excellent performing type?And can I thus assume it has the best motor,too?Or,is it still dependant upon say,the type(I.E. FEF,Pacific,Y6b,etc.)? To put it another way..Is all Rivarossi steam good(as can be expected with todays production techniques)if it has prototypical flanging? ...JCater..are you reporting that your early Riv 4-4-0 and 2-4-0 are able to creep nice ? Finally who wants to field this question?:What is the difference and relation to,if any,of Riv and IHC..I keep getting told odd things about this..Who makes/made who?.Some IHC looks kind of toyish,but some say they're great!! Waz up? .....Mark:angel:
Yes they crept along nicely by 2001 standards...no DCC just DC BUT they were quiet and moved nicely. In terms of IHC, they look ok...a bit out of scale if you ask me and I never cared for their performance. John
I have seversal IHC and Rivarossi engines. My personal opinion is comparring IHC with Rivarossi in general is like comparing Chevy with Buick. I am no longer that 'picky', but back when I 'Was', neither of the engines were of really high quality all around. So far as I personally have found, today's small flanged engines seem to operate well on DC, especially when they have a can motor. I have not found a pancake type motor that runs as slowly as the can motors do on the normal power pack. I have my power pack blocked just at the point where it wants to cut off power to the track, which is about 5 miles an hour. (It would also start an engine up at 5 miles an hour spinning wheels too). A rheostat volume control from a radio, set to 'wide open' (full volume) takes over from there, allowing me to cut the voltage on down until the motor is not getting enough 'juice' to rotate the motor. It has to be turned on down to 'off' for stopping for any length of time. I just have to always remember to start up any engine with the radio knob FIRST, building speed until I get up to the 5 mile an hour speed, and 'then' I can start playing with the big throttle for mainline work. The open frame motors like in John's engines seems to work as well as the can motors, they may use a bit more amps is all, but the pancake motors were poorly built, in my opinion. It makes DC run like DCC for soft coupling.
I have a few of the IHC engines, and after they are run some, they are OK. They generally can use a few add-on details from somewhere like Cal-Scale to get them looking better. I have had no mechanical problems with any of mine.
With all respect,my question was not answered..It's simply:If a Riv has realistic(low)flanges,is it of the newer/est production line and therefore the best of theirs one can obtain ?..Also,I guess my belief about IHC is correct in that it IS a tad toyish.But,still,I'd like to know if it is or is not,was not built by Rivarossi..I tend to see it like Bachmann and Bachmann Spectum,or Proto 1000(who's RDC is superb at a sinfully low price)and Proto 2000(their'Spectrum').Another way to put it:If a Riv has giant flanges is it necessarily also a poor runner?? ....Thanks,Mark
I'll try to answer your original questions. I have some Rivarossi engines that date back to the 1970's. They have large flanges, and after the usual break-in period they ran well. I do clean the wheels and contacts as often as I can, and added extra weight to the tenders - same thing I do for IHC engines. Actually, I do not own any Riv. engines that are less than 10, maybe 15 years old. IHC engines are built by Mehano in Slovania. I bought a couple of the IHC Premier series for my dad a few years back. Now I have them. They did not get much run time, but the last time we operated our stuff together, he ran his IHC 4-8-2, and I ran my Riv. 2-8-4. Both ran well. The IHC Premier loco does appear to have smaller flanges than my older Riv. loco. - but both ran well over the club code 83 track, which I believe was hand laid. My Riv. 2-8-4 does "bump" slightly on my Atlas code 83 flex. Newer Riv. engines do have smaller flanges, some are able to operate on code 70 track, and are the best - but the older large flange locos run well, too.
Tim and others,thanks for all the information.I suppose I'll wind up with a Riv if they have a Y6b.Though my road is small I'll justify this as needing to work my 2.5 in main and one 3 Pct.(Indust spur)grade.I'll just make sure it has low flanges and test run it first, anyway(something you can't do with mail order)...Mark
A pancake motor is like the thin tall motor you see in a lot of the F7 and other diesels that does NOT have a worm drive gear on the motor shaft. Instead it usually has a small spur gear that runs with other spur gears reducing RPM down to the wheel axles. It is like a bicycle wheel where the rim and spokes are fastened tight to its axle, making the armature, which spins, and the tire is stationary making the field magnets or field windings that is mounted onto the truck or engine frame. They were invented for high torque and light weight for use in aircraft during the war.
Just one other word of encouragement on the Rivarroasi engines, the old ones anyhow. The club I belonged to years ago had very strict rules about what they would allow on their track. They had to inspect all engoines and rolling stock before it could be laid on the layout. My Riv engines were welcomed with open arms and NEVER had a problem on the track. Do they serve syrup with pancake motors? John
Mark, you are probably watching the cost of the loco but if you're talking slow speed out of the box my Proto 2000 mallet is out standing in comparison to my Riv Y6B. Yes it's twice the cost but it's also twice the fun, ie. details and performance. Presently, my Riv Y6B is awaiting it's turn on the workbench. I'm going to replace the old motor with a can motor, add DCC and sound then superdetail it. verse
I have a couple of Riv 4-6-4 Hudsons. The run OK but could use a better electrical pick-up system. None of my other engines (Athearn, Atlas, Bachmann all wheel-pickup) stall on my turnouts, but on occasion both these steamers do and or the sound (I upgraded them with MRC Brilliance sound decoders) cuts out as the power is temporarily lost. Does anyone know if there is a way to upgrade the tender to get electrical pick-up from BOTH rails instead of just the one side?
Verse,I'm confused.Is picture you're showing in #15 the Riv needing benchwork or is it the Proto mallet? Also is it HO or N? I.E.Some older HO up close can look like N due to large flanges.I have an old N scale Y6b that, before he wound up in a hundred pieces, looked just like the Pic.(no value judgement intended)..But as stated,I am in HO these days...
The above photo is that of the Old Riv Y6B. I haven't taken any pics of the P2K mallet yet. I'll post one on the weekend. BTW yeah I also have the n scale mallet I even have videos of it in action on my home layout too. Here's an old photo taken at the start of the bench work. verse
Both photos are of the older HO & N versions that have the European long flanges. The newer versions have flanges only half as long, and most now have can motors. (Syrup and butter is no longer included.) In the engine's frame there is a tiny bullet nosed pin that is spring loaded to ride out against the inside of the driver flange, for pick up. This tiny coil spring is made from such fine wire, that it softens losing its 'temper' under high load conditions that require high voltage. That is the only drawback to the Rivarossi. Tender pick up is not too difficult but how to make it, is too long a description to post here. Just turn one tender truck around and keep it insulated from the tender and engine frame. Run a #28 or #30 insulated wire from 'pick ups' on this truck's axles to the motor as appropriate. It is best to make a plug connection, in case you need to separate the tender from the engine. If you can use a wire with black insulation, it wont be noticeable between engine and tender. It does not have to 'replace' anything, just augment it.
