Routing through Mobile to be discontinued?

David B. May 2, 2006

  1. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    Ken, we may not have to wait much longer (in Congressional terms) since this funding bill already has been assigned to a House/Senate Conference Committee to resolve differences. Assuming that (A) the $700M amendment passes through the committee, and then (B) Bush does NOT veto the whole she-bang, this funding may become available in the FY07 funding package, after 10/01/06. Note that I said "may"...! My 40+ years experience with the Beltway Bureaucracy is that funds which started out as "$700M" quickly lose 5-10% with each department they must pass through for various, although unrelated approvals, finally ending up as $350M+/-...AT BEST!!!!:angry:

    Sorry Guys, but that is how our Government's obscure (below-the-radar) sub-Departments must acquire their yearly funding in order to stay alive, even though few of these units have had any real purpose or mission for 40-50 years. And y'all wonder why our Government funds studies such as the "Sex Life Of A Blow Fly"! :eek:mg:

    I say no more....:zip:
     
  2. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    No need to.... Those of us who had real schooling, also know real history.....

    :eek:mg: :sad:

    Boxcab E50
     
  3. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    According to today's paper, House/Senate negotiators have removed the $700 Million CSX ROW buy-out amendment from the $92 Billion Iraq/Katrina funding bill. I doubt if Mississippi can raise that kind of money by itself, so this project is probably dead for good, unless Senators Lott and/or Cochran find another funding route.
     
  4. David B.

    David B. TrainBoard Member

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    It will be interesting now to see if CSX moves its traffic inland anyway.
     
  5. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    I'm sure the future will be interesting. I believe that CSX self-insures, so it shouldn't take many more $250M losses before they decide that the NO&M has become more of a burden than a benefit.
     
  6. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    I wonder what it would require, to make that routing change, and then embargo the NO&M?

    :sad:

    Boxcab E50
     
  7. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    Ken, I believe CSX has the move plans are already in place, just a matter of execution.

    On a different note...what do you mean by "Embargo". I'm not familiar with that term in this context.
     
  8. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Hank-

    An embargo in railroading is when a company will not accept cars for delivery onto a portion, or all of their system. All loads and empties are removed. And that's it. Closed for business. They then take the line out of service. It can stay out of service, be railbanked, abandoned, etc.

    :(

    Boxcab E50
     
  9. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    I doubt if CSX management wants to embargo this line for many sound business reasons.

    First, there are many customers in the Port Bienville industrial complex, the most western area of the MS Coast that are served out of New Orleans.

    Second, there are customers in Pascagoula's Bayou Casotte industrial complex, including the largest Standard Oil refinery in the World, that are served out of Mobile.

    Third, NO&M provides the shortest route between Jacksonville, FL and Long Beach, CA for containers bypassing the Panama Canal.

    However, had the money become available, CSX would have quickly abandoned the line for strong political reasons. Mississippi's Republican Senators Trent Lott and Thad Cochran are extremely powerful, Mississippi's Republican Governor Haley Barbour, having been head of the Republican National Commitee for many years, and founder and president of the most powerful lobbying firm in Washington, is extremely well-connected inside the Beltway, and lastly, John Snow, Bush's Treasury Secretary for three years until a few weeks ago, was CEO of CSX prior to accepting the Cabinet appointment, and I'm sure remains influential with CSX to this day.

    I have observed that strong political reasons overcome sound business reasons 99% of the time.
     
  10. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    To further corroborate my previous lengthy and cynical post of politics vs. business, the following is quoted from Thursday's Trains.Com Newswire......

    "Plan to reroute CSX away from Mississippi Gulf coast down, but not out

    "WASHINGTON - It appeared late Wednesday that a Congressional committee had killed the controversial $700 million funding proposal that would pay CSX to abandon its railroad along the Mississippi Gulf coast in favor of one farther inland, according to a story in the Mobile (Ala.) Register. But the project is far from dead, especially since it still has the support of Mississippi's two Republican senators, according to lawmakers and others involved in the project.

    "One of the senators, Thad Cochran, chairs a committee responsible for federal spending decisions. He 'still believes that it's a very important project for the state of Mississippi,' his spokeswoman, Margaret Wicker, said Wednesday.

    "Mobile business leaders have warned that the plan could cost their city an invaluable rail link to the west, hurting industry and costing jobs. Rail passenger advocates say the idea writes the obituary for Amtrak's east-west route that runs through Mobile. The Sunset Limited, which had been operating between Los Angeles and Orlando, Fla. has been operating only west of New Orleans since Hurricane Katrina.

    "Still, some in Mississippi have for decades dreamed of ripping up the track that connects Mobile and New Orleans, citing safety reasons, noise pollution, and a desire to make its casino row more pedestrian-friendly.

    "Most recently, Mississippi officials, including Gov. Haley Barbour, had proposed buying the right-lf-way, then removing it to make room for improved hurricane evacuation routes.

    "Lawmakers charged with reconciling the House and Senate versions of an emergency war and hurricane spending bill abandoned $700 million that would have paid for the proposal, as they whittled toward a $94.5 billion allocation, according to published reports.

    "But, the money could come through other Congressional venues, such as the normal appropriations process, according to Keith Ashdown, vice president of policy for Washington, D.C.-based Taxpayers for Common Sense, which opposes the project.

    " 'The chairman is one of the most powerful appropriators in the world,' Ashdown said of Cochran. 'If he really wants this money and if he really feels that this is a priority, he should be able to get the money.'

    "The newspaper said that Barbour's Commission on Recovery, Rebuilding, and Renewal has listed the project as one of its top priorities to restore vibrancy to coastal towns shattered by Katrina. But even before the storm, the idea had been around for years, said Lee Youngblood, a spokesman for Senator Trent Lott (R.-Miss.).

    " 'It's a project that's always been about safety, protecting people from dangerous railroad crossings, and ensuring that the track and the service is protected from storm surges,' Youngblood said Wednesday.

    "The project's opponents aren't counting out the proposal, either. 'We have built up a tidal wave of opposition to this and we don't think it's over with,' said Louis Zadnichek, the editor and moderator of The Hummingbird, an electronic newsletter distributed by the newly formed grassroots organization, saveCSXtrack.

    "Some Republicans in Congress argue that ripping up the track, which had been destroyed by Hurricane Katrina and later repaired for $250 million, is a waste of taxpayer money.

    "CSX, which owns and operates the line, is staying out of the political battle, a spokesman said Wednesday. CSX has said previously that an inland route would be more reliable. However, the push for the relocation project is coming from political officials and people in the community, not CSX, the railroad's spokesman, Gary Sease, emphasized Wednesday.

    " 'It has to be from the political side. The spending of public money needs to be in a way that benefits the public,' he said. 'Our role was to respond to requests from public officials. Politically, we are largely neutral on this.'

    "Any relocation of CSX’s main freight route east from New Orleans, which splits in two southern Alabama locations with lines for Jacksonville, Fla., Atlanta, and Birmingham, likely would entail finding a way for CSX to operate on an enlarged Norfolk Southern main line heading northeast from New Orleans."
     
  11. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    I was just told that when (if?) CSX abandons the NO&M, all of the rail and ties would be removed leaving only the roadbed intact. The person who told me, our Mayor, was very upset because he was expecting to use the track for a light rail system. I gave him a brief two or three sentence explanation on the difference between Class-1 and light rail trackage, pointing out that the cost of buying and maintaining light rail was far less than that for 134# rail.

    It's amazing how putting "visions" in terms of money will quickly get a politician's attention....:teeth:
     
  12. Dave Jones

    Dave Jones TrainBoard Supporter

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    Have been quietly watching this "thing" on the Gulf Coast, not wanting to say too much because I don't have enough knowledge of the area or that particular rail line.

    However, if you're older than about 12 or 13 years, you know that 700 million plus dollars will end up being 1.umpteen billion (with a "B") - and let's see, Mississippi's gulf coast with a population of 1.nothing people per square mile - oh yeah, light rail should be a real money-maker.
     
  13. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    Dave, I don't know what to think about the feasability of light rail, especially now after Katrina. The total population for the nine cities across the Coast before Katrina was close to 200,000. Katrina destroyed about 65,000 homes, plus the majority of the apartment and condo complexes. Since nobody knows how many former residents will re-build, or even return from their evacuation locations, it's hard to say what our population will be in 2-3 years.

    With all the destruction on the Coast, it is conceivable that reconstruction will create a totally new personality and culture for the area. Therefore, installing a light rail system as soon as possible may well be just the change in direction the people need to develop their "new" culture. Sort of a "build it and they will come" concept.....dunno?

    Also, all forms of public transportation are heavily subsidized throughout the world, whether people want to admit it or not. I include buses, trolleys, light rail, passenger trains, and airlines. Even though airlines claim to make a profit, they are subsidized through municipal ownership of airports, and federal air traffic control. So all levels of government have and will fund public transportation in one way or another.
     
  14. Dave Jones

    Dave Jones TrainBoard Supporter

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    Hytec - Your reasoned response is exactly the reason I hesitated to add in my two cents worth. But when I read that CSX had restored this service at a cost of $250 million. well ...?

    It just seems to me that some of the well-heeled old boy's club allied with powerful politicians just came up with a "swell" idea - for themselves. It's the same way in my locale. I do have one or two dollars to wager that if you dig deep enough into these great government spending ideas, you'll find a couple or six individuals who will benefit financially really well.

    And it is all too true that governments do subsidize any and all forms of transportation, but in this country, not so much the railroads. Perhaps one of these days, we'll find out the actual cost of an airline ticket, the cost that includes all the costs.

    The Interstate Highway system is an even more egregious example when compared to the railroads. I do not know of a single for profit highway carrier that has an item on their financial statement that reads
    "Maintenance of Way", "snow removal", or "bridge replacment".

    Do not even need to go into the extra thicknesses of concrete, bridges, etc. that are necessary if the Interstates only carried cars, not ever heavier and longer trucks.

    To me, the idea of insurance and disaster relief is to put as many people back to where they were, not enhance the already healthy finances of the already well-to-do.
     
  15. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    Dave, the relocation of the tracks to the north has been discussed seriously for at least 50 years. US Hwy 90 runs directly adjacent to the beach throughout the 30 mile width of Harrison County. Katrina emphasized the need to have an alternate multi-lane route across the Coast to relieve the dependence on Hwy 90. For 2-3 weeks after the storm, ALL emergency vehicle traffic was forced to use disorganized and disconnected city streets because Hwy 90 had been destroyed. The only other alternative route is I-10 which is 5-7 miles north of Hwy 90, and has only 7 interchanges for the 30 mile distance. So I-10 is not a viable alternative for local emergency traffic.

    I have not seen or heard of any evidence of potential personal financial benefit from this concept during the 50 years that I have lived on the Coast. There have been many instances of potential and real personal benefit resulting from most other projects throughout the Coast, but not this one.

    I agree that "disaster relief" normally is intended to repair and rebuild after catastrophic damage. However, there are many instances where it is more prudent to use the same funds, and experience, to mitigate future destruction rather than to rebuild the same again directly in harm's way.
     
  16. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Even more amazing, is how little the poli-sci-ers know about the reality surrounding them. Have had some involvement in such "adventures." At times, communicating with them, and gaining their comprehension, is like talking to a Martian. Small wonder we have so many societal troubles........

    :thumbs_down:

    Boxcab E50
     

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