I currently run a door-sized N scale layout, but am always thinking about building something larger when the timing presents itself. First, we need to have our basement floor repoured and walls waterproofed. That will be a couple of years yet. So my thinking as I run my grade changing layout now is that I tend to find myself simply running a train around my single main layout. I have no plans of ever offering up an operating session for anyone but myself and possibly my 6-year old son, but his interest in mrr is minimal right now. I'm not a huge fan of elevation change on my layout as that has caused me a few track work problems, but nothing major. I think I want a larger layout with no changes in grade. Having said that, my thoughts are that a double main layout would make more sense for me in the future. I like the idea of having a yard or staging area to build trains. But I'm also thinking of limiting the quantity of industry of my layout. I could see doing a large grain elevator, which I already have. I could add another industry and leave the remainder of the layout for scenery. No cities or towns, just landscape for the trains to run through. Perhaps a branch line to an industry if room permits. I'm looking for simplicity with uncomplicated operations. But just enough operations to keep it interesting over the long haul. A double main line seems like the way to go for me. Does anyone have any thoughts on a double main line that they have either seen, built or run?
For me running endless loops isn't my cup of tea and therefore my few loop layouts-many will recall I perfer ISLs- been design solely for operation. My thoughts. My last 36" x 80" HCD layout consisted of a 7 track yard with yard lead,a 4 track engine service area and a small industrial park that contain 5 industries..I used a 2 track main line in your basic "train set" loop* design was used.The scenery was urban. Operation was straight forward..I could run 2 trains while working the yard and building other trains.I would build one train and then have a inbound followed by a outbound..A local to the industrial park was also ran instead of 2 general freights. All this operation involved 3 power packs and selectors.1 duel pack was used for the main line while one was used for the yard and one for the engine terminal..Looking back I think three packs was overkill.If I building this layout today using DC I would eliminate the engine service pack.. * This term means the layout was built using the basic loop type plan with the added yard,engine service area etc..
I prefer a layout that is balanced with operations and running. I think it is safe to say that most of us define "Running" as trains running around a Lionel, circle track of tight radius curves. The Christmas tree set-up. When it comes to operations it's everything from switching a small industrial spur, a small switching yard with all it's see sawing, to carding each train car, passenger or freight, as to a specific purpose. I prefer to fall somewhere in between. I absolutely enjoy pushing and shoving freight cars around a small yard, to make up a local and then run it out on the main to pick-up and set out train cars at various industrial spurs. Then after all the fun is over...well...not quite. I like to sit back and watch, multiple train operations of through freights and those awesome passenger trains. With a set out or two along the way. My current layout reflects this although, I wish I had more places to push and shove Ie., Within a classification yard. The key is to build what you enjoy. To create your own railroad world.
Dave: The "original" JJJ&E ( nine years) had a double mainline with four reverse loops. That made running trains very interesting. Now, that I'm building a new and much larger layout, the "new" JJJ&E also has a double mainline. I always liked layouts with double mainline track. This type of layout makes for interesting operations especially with DCC.
Although my layouts have all been on the small side, I'd still have both running along with operations together on a large layout. Some days, I love to just turn on some trains and railfan, others days, I want to do switching and run a local. Just all depends on the mood, I guess. As was said earlier, you do what makes YOU happy. That's what makes this such a great hobby!
The trains go around and around and around Hi, Here is my two cents worth and if you want to give me change back that's ok.:tb-biggrin: My current layout started out as an operations layout and has become a combination of running an operations. There are times I just watch the trains go around and then I spend time doing operations. The main reason I changed was for my grandchildren. They like to watch the trains go around and around and around etc. They do not understand the operations part (to young). With the continues loop they get to run the trains with major supervision. Gary
Both of coarse. I like to run trains out on the main while I work the yard or town sidings. I also like to have one train run at a reasonable speed and run an apposing train that has to duck into sidings to avoid it. When I am finished with the switching duties I have the continuous train arrive somewhere and switch trains and duties. This way I can keep the car cards in order as long as I park the trains where thier intended destinations are on the train orders. This is actually very simple but fun to me and keeps the cars and trains mixed/different all the time.
I just like to build and run. Operations just isn't my cup of tea. It feels too much like work, especially when done on a club layout with all the "rules" and such. My hobby is meant for me to relax, not go to work again. I get more than enough of the rules crammed down my throat every day while at work.
I have the capacity to do both running and operations on my layout which is under construction. Although I do have two decks. The bottom deck is a double track mainline but is basically a dogbone the loops at the ends have enough tracks for staging. Then there is a branch line that climbs a helix to the top level which is single track and runsthrough an industrial district and into staging. I plan to hold operating sessions but also in between I can sit back and watch the trains roll by or set trains running for visitors on the lower level. I can set three trains in motion on the lower level and just watch them run with just the occasional touch of a throttle. Also I know some of my friends who will come over during operating session aren't that nto operations and would just rather run a train around and can do so without having to do all the switching. Cheers, Alan.
Those of you who have never participated in prototypical operations have no idea what you are missing.
I spent 8-10 hours this weekend just running trains around a double-track layout. I would set up a train while the other one ran, then I'd watch them both run for awhile, then pull out some other engines and run them for awhile. I had a blast and totally enjoyed myself. Operations to me are incredibly dull and too much like work. Do what you want, it's your layout for you to enjoy!
If I have learned anything from proto ops, it is that I enjoy running trains more than I enjoy operating them, and I enjoy building trains far more than I enjoy running them.
As far as preference I enjoy just watching trains run more so than operations. However, if I had a solid track plan that incorporated distinct destinations and adequate trackage, I can see myself spending hours operating. A solid track plan will allow both, and even if you prefer continuous running, you should spend an equal, if not more, time on the staging and industry tracks. Why? Because they are in fact equally important to support continuous running. However, if you have just a single train, and no intentions to expand, you don't need a single siding. But let me warn you right now, this hobby is addicting. So plan for expansion. Ok, why are staging and industry tracks important if I'm just running my trains roundy round? Well, for one, chances are you have (or at some point will have) more trains than your layout room can support for a main line of that size. This is the delima to pretty much every modeler. Therfore, enter staging tracks. Ok, so I have 4 different trains and 5 scale miles of main line. I'll just create a yard with 3 tracks and call it good. OR I could split up the yard into two or 3 passing sidings at different destinations of the layout and create a sense of purpose! Instead of creating a boring yard, we split the layout into a few distinct destinatios. We still get our round running, but guess what, things are more interesting! Now lets say 2 of our trains are freight. At some point, I guarantee you'll itch to change the order of the cars up. You'll realize one day that you have memorized the exact order, with out even being in the house! We could use the God approach and just shuffle the cars by hand, or we could, once again, give our layout more purpose and interest by adding 2 or 3 industry tracks. These box cars go here, the tank cars over there, and the other box cars go to this one. After a couple minutes of separating the specific cars to their respective industry. Hook them all back up the train again and take them for a main line cruise. So basically what I'm saying is, even in contiunous running, when you incorperate the need for minor operations, your layout will have more purpose and interest.
Hey, look at that. I went on rambling on a topic that wasn't even the main question from the creator, just the topic of the thread. "Does anyone have any thoughts on a double main line that they have either seen, built or run? " I love double main lines. Especially for continuous running. They allow one train to go this way, and another train to go that way. As you can see from my post above, I also enjoy adding purpose and interest, though these should not be confused with complexity. Adding complexity to a layout would be numerous switch backs and bottle-necks and dead end situations. These should ONLY be added if you have distinct purpose and reason to add them (logging, time-saver puzzles). Unfortunately more often than not, I see these added, simply because they look "fun", when in fact, they are NOT. The complexity of double mains is that for an industry with a stub siding, one direction can easily pick up/drop off, while the other would have to perform a series of run around moves. Designing a double main, you can easily fall into this trap, especially if your main focus is continuous running. You'll throw an industry in to give the layout appeal, then done. Dead end from the opposite direction. Instead, take your time, as stated in my post above, to carefully plan out your industries and sidings. Instead of just throwing an industry in, give it a run-around track so it can be served from the opposite direction. One run-around can serve multiple industries as well. The Trainboard Layout Design and Discussion forum is the best place on the net for track planning! Post your plans, ask for feedback, take in the criticism (it will all be constructive, I promise). Take Poppy2201 for example. His layout has been in design phase since march. You can't see all the images anymore as some have expired, but each post he has made to his thread he incorporates the suggestions and feedback given on a new revision of his plan. His plan is very solid right now, and I dont even think its final yet!
i prefer mixed layouts, be it loop to loop or continuous run. I love operating. Switching out cars and transfer runs are fun. but sometimes i just like to kick back and watch the trains go round and round.
I just like running my trains, operations to me is like watching paint dry. I should know i have some freinds into operations and while they enjoy it they understand why i don't. I have tried it, but it is just not for me. Enjoy what you like, i do. Dave
Benny,There are several ways to "operate".. One can go full out with time tables,fast clocks etc.. One can use waybills/car cars. Or One can take the more relax route.. Run a local and just switch out cars on a 1 to 1 or 2 to 2 or more bases without any paper work..Run trains as extras. Operation is not a ugly word nor does it have to be complex as the magazine operation "experts" make it out to be. That's the beauty of it. Complex,middle or simple.. Its a individual call.
Running can be operations, too. In Utah, there was almost zero switching on the Rio Grande in the 1960s, except for a couple coal locals that would go fetch loaded cars and bring them back to Helper. But the action was on the double-track mainline. Dozens of trains per day, with CTC, including "wrong way" excursions to pass slow coal drags. I'm trying to build a layout to capture the great fun of this. In the mid-1960s the Rio Grande complicated things deliciously by taking out the double track between Colton and Soldier Summit (the rationale was that the coal business was "dead" -- It was anything but). As Armstrong says in his wonderful book on operations, double track becomes infinitely less boring when there's a single-track bottleneck to get through. --b.
I've done all three, brakie. The most fun was running the through freight by the fast clock with a couple yard setouts. The others were...well, just not that much. Waybills...too much paperwork. If I'm running trians, I'm not itnerested in what's in the cars - I jsut want to knwo where they go. In short, I just need a switchlist. That means my conducter has to make a switchlist for me if I am the engineer - which means someone has paperwork to do. Local switching is fine, but the paint dried up real quick. I'm back where I started - BUILDING STUFF!!!
