Today I scanned some 4-4-0s and 4-6-0s from the Vollrath collection. I know little about them and welcome any comments. 9255. I do not know the location or the division. Tender says "lines" so it's out of NY state. 1004. Same comments. I like the looks of this one.
Did the use of "Lines" indicate a subsidiary operation? Train orders they'd gone to a header of "System", so they could be used by all their companies. Those two lokeys just look fast....
Roger, the photo of 1004 could have been taken in southern New York State on the Putnam Division. The Put used the round top style of car almost exclusively. Also, at the end of its days in the late 1940's, the Put was using F-Class 4-6-0s as its main power, so a photo of a "modern" 4-4-0 would not be out of the question. I'll see what I can find in Louis Grogan's book, The Coming Of The New York And Harlem Railroad, because he included many photos of the Put, including their engine terminal in the Bronx.
Apparently 1004 was assigned to the Cleveland, OH area, at least in 1936. http://www.nyysa.com/code/DetailPage.php?a=1977&ff=0&sl=10&rc=590. Whaddya know, I guess round top passenger cars were used in more NYC locations than just the Putnam Division. LOL
Roger, yours looks like it has a wagon top boiler, so probably all three are from different classes. I have got to look up some info on these and get back with it.
After some research, 9255 was photographed in New Castle in 1927. It is a class C-103, built in 1901 for the Pittsburgh and Lake Erie. 1004 was photographed in Yorktown Heights, so you were right, Hank, in 1934. Class C, was 878. Ken, the New York Central Lines on tenders were on any divisions outside the original New York Central and Hudson River. Pretty sure they showed up on Michigan Central, P&LE, maybe even the Big Four. After 1936 that may have been dropped, I don't know.
Jim, my apologies...I just realized you posted the photo of 1004, not Roger. Damn, I hate getting old.
Here is more information about 4-4-0 1004 from Arnold Haas’ book “Memories of New York Central Steam”, D. Carleton Railbooks Publication, 1980. On page 134 are four photos of two members of the “C” class (no subclass). The first photo of 1004 matches the one Jim posted. Yorktown Heights, New York, 1935. The location of the second photo of 1004 was at the Bronx. The caption says it was retired in 1937. Haas says the last assignment of the C class was out of the Bronx in local service. The picture that Hank linked to (dated August 1936) probably shows the 1004 in a deadline in Cleveland (either at Linndale or Collinwood – note the catenary) just before going to one of the scrappers in the Cleveland area. The C class was assigned to the NYC&HR. Haas says they were built by Schenectady between 1890-1896. They were rebuilt by Schenectady between 1901-1918. Some had superheaters installed in later years. All were retired between 1916-1937. Back to page 134 we see two photos of sister C class 1038 at Brewster, New York and the Bronx. This locomotive never got new cylinders. Both photos show it with the original square steam chest with slide valves. Other than that, it looks about the same as the 1004. Both had lost their “mantle clock” headlights in favor of newer smaller ones. 1038 was renumbered 4304 in 1936 and was scrapped in 1937. On page 133 are two more photos of sister C class locomotives. These photos are obviously from an earlier period. Number 885 was built in 1890 by Schenectady and was renumbered 1011 in 1913. It is shown with a Brewster local train (no date). Number 874 is shown at the original Grand Central Terminal with the Fast Mail in 1900. A long link and pin coupler is on the pilot. It was also built in 1890 by Schenectady. It was destroyed in 1912 when its boiler exploded. Both these pictures show us what 1004 originally looked like. Mike Kmetz
Mike, thank you. You have returned my faith in an aging memory. My initial gut reaction with the round tops was the Putnam, and I should have stuck with that. Yorktown Heights was the scheduled northern terminal for the Put's commuter trains. Yorktown also had a turntable and small coach yard. A few trains continued on Putnam track to Brewster where they joined the Harlem Division, and offered passengers a cross-platform transfer to the faster Harlem trains into GCT. Those Put trains then continued a few miles beyond the station to the Harlem's Brewster yard for servicing and minor repairs, rather than travelling 50-55 miles away to the Put's southern terminal at Kingsbridge in the Bronx, which had less space and more traffic congestion.
Roger, we haven't forgotten you and the nice photo of the other 4-4-0 that you provided. The locomotive appears to be one of the earlier examples, still with its original number and original configuration. That makes it difficult to find specific information about it, as locomotives in that era were rebuilt, renumbered, absorbed in mergers, etc. I keep studying the photo for details that might give some clues as to period and location. Notice the grade crossing sign which is a crossbuck, not the diamond-shaped style common on the LS&MS and other parts of the system. Notice the semaphore (train order signal) which appears to be a lower quadrant type. Notice the number "1" prominently displayed on the front of the smokebox and side of the headlight. Notice the tall, straight smokestack unlike the flared-top style preferred by the Big Four. It appears to be summer somewhere in the midwest; perhaps 1900-1915. We keep looking. Mike Kmetz
Mike, thank you for the research on those locomotives. I have some 4-6-0s that I have not been able to find much info on, either. I am using George Drury's North American Steam Locomotives, and the New York Central Edson and Vail bible. This photo says it was photographed in "Courtright" in 1956. Class F 1290. I cannot find a serial number that matches. LS-MS had a 1290 that was a 4-6-2. A little more on this one, 818, Class Fx, photographed in "Roundout" which probably was Rondout in 1939. It was an Ulster and Delaware loco originally.
Sorry for the delay in replying - I was at our other house for a couple of weeks where we have no internet service. Once again Carl Haas’ book has provided more information about these ten-wheelers. The Fx class was built for the Ulster & Delaware by Alco-Schenectady. They originally had 2-digit numbers and were renumbered into the 800-series in 1936. Actually Haas distinguishes light Fx 800-807 built 1899-1904 from Fx heavy 808-818 built in 1906-1907. All were gone by 1949. Locomotive 818 did not appear but sisters 21(801), 802, (23)803, 804, 808, 35(812), 815, and 40(817?) are pictured. Some received new cylinders while others did not. Ten-wheeler 1290 was part of the F-82 class built for the Michigan Central 1899-1906. Originally numbered in the 8200-series, they were renumbered into the 1200-series. “A somewhat larger and stronger 57”-drivered 4-6-0 engine type was built 1899-1906 for the Michigan Central by Montreal Locomotive Works and Schenectady, class F-82,a-d, altogether 36 units. They proved to be very useful in local passenger service, in later years on branch lines since they showed below average operating expenses and could run on tracks which were too weak for heavier power. None of them ever received superheaters. Since they were satisfactory for their assigned service and needed very little shopping, they were saved from the torch for a longer period of time than their contemporaries. Locomotives 1290 and 1291 (ex-880 and 881) were at the time of their retirement in 1956 and 1957, the oldest NYC engines, after having outlived much big modern power for many years. These two locomotives were built in 1900 by Montreal Locomotive Works as MC class F-82. The last years of their useful life they were assigned to NYC branch lines in Ontario, Canada for light passenger and freight trains. Both engines were equipped with auxiliary water tenders to be able to run over longer distances.” Besides two photos of 1290 and one of 1291, there are photos of F-82c 8272 new in 1905, and F-82b 8260 in 1934 at Chicago. Apparently none of the Fx class received new cylinders. One shot of 1290 with a freight train clearly shows the auxiliary water tender. Both 1290 and 1291 also had their tenders modified with tall coal bunkers. Mike
Mike, I'm always enlightened by your research, now with your comments of various F classes. Prior to now, I was aware only of the F-12 Ten-Wheelers used by the Central's Putnam Division, its preferred locomotive until the Put's demise in the early 50's. I don't believe the Put ever ran a diesel, not even one of the early RS-2s that ran on the Harlem Division out of Brewster, NY where the two divisions joined.
Thank you for the research, Mike. I wondered about those ten wheelers, as I had read that some lasted longer in service than the main line locomotives.
And one more. This one was taken in Anderson IN and was a CCC&AStL before it became NYCS. About 1900.
That's a great old photo, Roger. With all of the photos of Anderson from the past, do you have one of what the tracks look like now?
I guess that means all local freight goes by truck to a central collection point or container yard. OK, I'll give in, trucks are more versatile on city streets, but still...WAAH. :crying:
