Can anybody please advise me where I can get copies of the Joint Line Employees Time Table (i.e. a Working Time Table) for 1964, 1970, 1980 and 1985. I need these so I can work out what trains ran in order to model Palmer Lake ------------------ Ron Carlisle
Hi Ron, Welcome aboard. I put the word out on the DGRW List. This is a holiday weekend, so might take a couple days for an answer, good or bad. Will post anything I get. Jim Harrawood
Hi Ron, We got lucky. This is from Keith Williams. http://www.sound.net/~drgw/ -------------------------------------- Jim, I have a 1977 Joint Line TT and a copy of a 1989 Joint Line TT and according to both of them, no trains run on the Joint Line, i.e., no trains are listed in either of them. Unless these two that I have are "freaks," don't expect to find much train information in any of the others. Keith ------------------------------------------ This is from Bob Webber. http://www.concentric.net/~Rswebber/library.shtml -------------------------------------- I have one for 71, 83, and 75 - no mention of trains. -------------------------------------- Like I said before, if anything else comes up I'll let you know. I think the above means no Rio Grande trains except for extras. Jim Harrawood [This message has been edited by slimjim375 (edited 22 April 2000).] [This message has been edited by slimjim375 (edited 22 April 2000).]
More info. The wires are hot tonight. Joint Line Employees Time Table No. 2, effective October 25, 1964 shows D&RGW trains 1 and 2 (Royal Gorge) and 3 and 4 (Missouri Pacific's Colorado Eagle) and C&S trains 21 and 22 (Texas Zephyr and 27 and 28 (Gulf Coast Special). There was no ETT issued in 1970. No.5 was effective June 11, 1968 and No. 6 was effective May 16, 1971. No. 3 effective October 9, 1966 shows only numbers 1 and 2, 21 and 22, and 27 and 28. No. 4 effective April 30, 1967 shows numbers 1 and 2, 27 and 28 and ATSF 191 and 200 (the Chief - believe it or not)which was the Denver to La Junta train for several years. No. 5 shows only 191 and 200 (no name given now)and No. 6 does not show any trains. The last specific Joint Line Public Time Table was issued November 16, 1965. Although the Employee Time Tables show exact times for each station there were only a few "flag or conditional" stops actually made and after 1968 all those depots had closed. I remember that if you wanted to have 191 stop at Palmer Lake (which it would as the only stop between Denver and Colorado Springs) you had to call (a long distance number from Palmer Lake) several hours before the train left Denver to make arrangements for it to stop. Then there was the "problem" of paying for a ticket as the conductor often did not have change, so you would have to get off at Colorado Springs, hustle in to the station and purchase it. Going north on 200 if you wanted to get off at Palmer Lake you had to make sure the conductor walked up to the engine during the station stop at Colorado and told the engineer as often unit (was a single with a baggage and coach) was a freight unit (sometimes a GP) and there was no "signal cord" from the coach to the engine for the conducter to pull to signal a stop at the next station (and of course this was before radio communication at least on that train).
Still more. You'll have to excuse the format. These are copyed from e-mail's. Looking in Denver Division #1 for 5/5/63, I see: Southbound: #27 C&S Gulf Coast Special, Leaving South Denver 8:10 p, arriving Bragdon 10:12 p #3 D&RGW Colorado Eagle, Leaving South Denver 4:15 p, arriving Bragdon 6:29 p #21 C&S Texas Zephyr, Leaving South Denver 12:55 p, arriving Bragdon 3:01 p #1 D&RGW Royal Gorge Gulf Coast Special, Leaving South Denver 9:10 a, arriving Bragdon 11:31 a Northbound: #28 C&S Gulf Coast Special, Leaving Bragdon 3:38 p, arriving South Denver 5:55p #4 D&RGW Colorado Eagle, Leaving Bragdon 7:55 a, arriving South Denver 10:08 a #22 C&S Texas Zephyr, Leaving Bragdon 4:13a, arriving South Denver 6:20 a #2 D&RGW Royal Gorge Gulf Coast Special, Leaving Bragdon 12:20 p, arriving South Denver 2:50 p No mention of freight.... Now looking in Joint Line #4 for 4/30/67, I see: Southbound: #191 AT&SF The Chief, Leaving South Denver 8:10 p, arriving Bragdon 10:22 p #27 C&S Texas Zephyr, Leaving South Denver 8:20 p, arriving Bragdon 10:46 p #1 D&RGW Royal Gorge Gulf Coast Special, Leaving South Denver 9:10 a, arriving Bragdon 11:31 a Northbound: #200 AT&SF The Chief, Leaving Bragdon 2:08 p, arriving South Denver 4:35p #22 C&S Texas Zephyr, Leaving Bragdon 4:38a, arriving South Denver 6:50 a #2 D&RGW Royal Gorge Gulf Coast Special, Leaving Bragdon 12:20 p, arriving South Denver 2:45 p Again. no mention of freight....
Still more. As Keith and Bob reported, no trains were listed in Joint Line timetables after 1971. That's because there were no scheduled trains on the line once passenger service ended. The MoPac's Colorado Eagle (Rio Grande trains 3/4) ran until May 16, 1966, the C&S Texas Zephyr (21/22) until May of 1967, the Grande's Royal Gorge (1/2) until July 27, 1967. The Santa Fe's connection to La Junta (191/200) ran until Amtrak day in May of 1971. After that there were only unscheduled freights, although there were regular trains: 165/166 and 167/168 for the Grande, 77/78 and 151/152 for the C&S/BN. Santa Fe's train numbers were more confusing. Add to that unit coal trains and extra movements. As you can see, what trains ran depends on what years you are interested in, but in any case an employee timetable will not list all of them.
Wow. what a great thread! Even better to find this gem by accident thru the listing at the bottom of another!
