This could, and probably does deserve to be in the SP or even UP forums rather than this one, in particular since it's only in part about TP itself, but whatever, I decided on here. So, I've been discussing and learning on other parts of the internets about the recentish history of Tennessee pass and the possibilities of all or part of it being reopened as a through route. What I've learned is that it's value as a through route was really dependent on the MP connection at Pueblo. A route Rio Grande got Trackage rights over in the MP/UP merger and on top of that, the fact that it could handle double stacks. Something Moffat could not do. This former MoPac trackage was allowed to deteriorate. DRGW/SP had the rights to maintain this track, but apparently not the money to do so. When UP acquired the SP, well it didn't want that MoPac connection anyway and Really Donner-Wyoming-Midwest was superior in every way. Without the MoPac connection TP goes to Pueblo and then has to move on the congested joint line to get anywhere. It didn't operationally make any sense. But here's the question. From an alternative universe perspective, lets say that DRGW and/or SP had the money to maintain or upgrade that MP line in Kansas. Would TP offer not just a viable, but desirable route today? Or, maybe not today, but lets say in 2007, before the downturn. Another interesting factoid. SP, prior to UP merger used to move about the same tonnage over both Moffat and TP as UP now moves over Moffat alone. So there was capacity increases available on the lines. Right now, the only connection is BNSF ex ATSF at Pueblo. Which would be a compelling route if there were traffic BNSF wanted to move from NorCal that it couldn't move faster via Barstow and the Transcon. Anyway, I don't really have a question, I just wanted to post my spit balling "out loud" as it were and see if anyone had any comments.
I would think that with the second track now open at Abo Canyon, the BNSF would have little need for another route that not only has to cross the continental divide in the high Rockies but also have the pass at Soldier Summit in Utah to contend with. Then from Salt Lake City, they are still stuck on the UP whether going to LA or over the Sierras to San Francisco.
Very true, but they are moving some traffic via moffat now it and the route all the way in to Oakland is on their route map. So they do move over UP now. I assume to upper midwest locations. Still, I wonder if there were operational savings to be had moving over the northern route. Agreed, Abo Canyon's second track likely makes this unlikely, unless it could be done in less time over the northern routing.
I'm wondering if TP's section of 3% grades might have figured in on UP's decision to close the line, also. It certainly took UP long enough to notch the tunnels on the 2.2-2.4% grades of Donner Pass to allow for double-stacks, preferring their much slower and more circitous 1% Feather River Route for years after their SP takeover, even though Donner Pass was a much more direct east-west route. Rio Grande and Espee were used to heavy grades, UP not so much (let's face it, Sherman Hill is just a kinda/sorta 'bump' if you compare it to Moffat, Tennessee Pass or Donner Pass as far as grades and curveature). As far as BNSF Oakland-Chicago traffic, their San Joaquin Valley line is pretty level and pretty fast, with only a slight bottleneck over the Tehachapi's, then swift running to Barstow and the Transcon. I don't see them detouring much traffic over the ex-SP and Rio Grande routes for their Northern California traffic when they can run on their own trackage all the way. And UP seems to be increasing its Donner Pass tonnage. TP is a spectacular mountain route, but with the demise of the old MP Kansas City trackage, I don't see much hope for it opening up again. But hoo-boy, would I LOVE to be proven wrong about that! Tom
Well, BNSF does move SOMETHING over Moffat. Presumably from the Bay area. My impression is that TP, even with it's grades would/could be viable with an outlet a pueblo and a through connection to the Bay area, but it would never be superior to Sherman Hill for Stacks. In a world where the UP/SP merger didn't happen or went differently though...
I always wonder about future needs for rail transportation. What seems viable today, may some day be inadequate. And then what? Once TP is gone, it would be an incredible task to get it back.
Which really likely doesn't factor into UP's thinking. The problem isn't TP, but what's already gone east of Pueblo.
I'm not talking about UP thinking. Rather speaking of North America and years to come, which simply cannot be envisioned at present... 'What if' that day comes. Not only might the missing link east of Pueblo really sting, but TP being lost make it felt even worse.
Ken is right. Once a rail line is gone it is felt later on. This is true with MUCH of North America. Here where I live they just ripped up a section of rail that could be used for light rail. Yes the bikers/hikers have gotten their way once again and turned another rail line into a path of black tar. I doubt this would happen to TP but who knows. But one thing is for certain once the rails are ripped up they ALMOST NEVER get put back in, even if the RR realizes they made a mistake by doing so. At a cost of $1,500 per linear foot to put in a rail line it is too costly for a RR to relay rail.
I have said it many times, if not for freight the western end of the TP line from Leadville to Gypsum would make a great commuter rail line. Also a bridge line for freight between Canon City and Dotsero with local freight service for the very few industries along the line. Charlotte, NC attempted to build a commuter line on a NS branch. That plan fell apart, now there is a proposal to make it a combined freight and commuter service to help attract industries along the upgraded route as well as development. Now the plan is back near the top of the transit agenda. I think something like this would be the Tennessee pass lines best chance of ever opening again, a combined Vail valley commuter line and short line freight service. Alex
