I have similarly found I have a reduced interest in shows. Here in DFW, we have two, with the January Plano show being bigger typically. Even there, the same vendors, same layouts, etc. make it kind of boring. I did enjoy the few WGH shows I have gone to, and the few NTS, as well as the Oklahoma City and Train Fest shows. The common denominator is they are bigger, have more vendors, different layouts, and the mfgs, sometimes announcing or showing the latest product. Or as someone hints, more eye candy of all types. And while my "need to buy" has reduced with my layout basically built, the excitement of those shows has caused me to open the wallet. So, my unsolicited advice to local train shows is you need to change things up, offer something new and something more every year, etc., to keep what is basically the same crowd coming back. My feelings may change a bit with gas at $1.87 here in DFW, vs. $4 a few years ago, as Plano does have the layout tours. Even then, I limit my tour driving to layouts that I either haven't seen or haven't seen in a long time and hear their are changes. Some of the home layout owners who do exhibit also report their visits from the shows are way down, and limit the number of times they open their homes to the ones they think will yield the most visitors (i.e. guys on the Ft Worth side won't open for Plano, and vice versa)
Seems like at most of the venues, parking cost more than show entry. One of the few venues that the Great Train Show uses that has free parking is Craneway Pavilion in Richmond, CA. That one will be next weekend, Jan 3 & 4. Our Ntrak group will have a layout there. Brad Myers Peninsula Ntrak / AsiaNrail My Blogs: http://www.n-scale-dcc.blogspot.com/ http://www.palisadecanyonrr.blogspot.com/ http://tokyo-in-nscale.blogspot.com/
John Moore, They have revived the Gaithersburg Model Show. The guy at whose table you saw the FEF-3 and the Kato layouts (he sells large quantities of Kato) revived it a couple of years back. He runs it in conjunction with the Gaithersburg Railroadiana Show which occurs in November. If you go to the Timonium Scale Show, that guy will be there and will tell you all about it. The Model Show is even in that same little building where it always used to be. That show actually started out at the Greenbelt National Guard Armoury.
That show I used to be on a mailing list for. The Railroadiana Show was one I had stopped going to since tables after table of china, lanterns, and switch padlocks never did much for me. But the Gaithersburg show was always one were I found something.
Contrary to all the negative comments so far on this thread, model railroading is well and thriving in Utah. There are four shows here yearly which I attend and although not all of them thrive equally, some of them are difficult to walk around in because of the crowd density. The most well-attended show here is by far the Hostlers Show in March at the Ogden Union Station, with the Grand Hall, the Old-Timers Room, and the auditorium and stage all full of layouts and vendors. The potentially largest show is the NMRA Show, held at the Salt Lake City Fairgrounds in the main hall and several other adjacent buildings and is also full of layouts, but not as well attended as the Hostlers mainly due to the NMRA officers' lack of understanding that a little advertisement is essential. Another popular show is the Thanksgiving Point Show near Lehi Utah, and it is always uber-crowded and should probably have a larger arena in coming years. My favorite show is the Evanston Roundhouse Festival in Evanston Wyoming, which sits right on the Wyoming/Utah border and is held in the ex U.P. Engine Facilities and features the venue itself as the main star with an operating 130 ft turntable, partially restored roundhouse and a fully restored machine shop building..and is a fabulous spot for a model train show. It is generating more and more attendees as well as visitors as word gets out. In a State with only 3.5 million citizens, Utah has at least 3 large HO scale clubs, 5 N-scale clubs and several other modular organizations that may not be "clubs" but set up at the shows anyway. Several well-known and trend-setting model railroads operate here and there are about half a dozen LHS's which carry model railroad items or are model railroad specific. I am also aware of much activity in Southern California and Washington as well as Idaho and Wyoming with modular model railroads and increasing memberships. In my own experience, I have two grown sons who are still interested in model railroading, one of whom is an essential part of our own modular/portable model railroad and group. My two grandkids are dyed-in-the-wool model railroad freeks and love to run Gramper's trains, go to the Utah Railroad Museum and go watch and photograph the 844 or the 4015 when they come through or stop in either Ogden, Weber, or Echo Canyons. Their uncle Benjamin is always along too as well as several dozen of my model railroad friends, their sons and daughters and wives...such as Gary, Gregg, Bob, Ralph, Jim, Mike, Robert, John, Gil, Kelly, Jared, Nate, Kent...and many more. When I look at what's available in N-scale, it is the golden-time for me, with more detailed and excellent running engines and cars, more efforts by manufacturers to get their models correctly detailed and painted and the new technical stuff is really adding a new and wonderful dimension to my model railroading experience...especially DCC and sound. When I compare average wages and the cost of N-scale models, they have not increased nearly at the same rate as other expenses such as gasoline, food, housing, automobiles...so I have nothing to gripe about when it comes to the cost of the hobby. When I compare the cost of model railroading to the cost of another hobby, such as four-wheeling or snow mobiling, I don't have to buy a big truck, a trailer, two to five multi-thousand-dollar machines, pay for gas every time I want to use them or spend half a day or a three-day weekend to fully appreciate the experience. Yup, I have other hobbies too...mountain biking (the kind you pedal), photography and precision long-range shooting. I'm saving up for a top-of-the-line multi-caliber rifle by Accuracy International, and when I have TWENTY ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS (capitals intentional) I'll be buying it and an appropriate scope. I also will be buying a new top-of-the-line mountain bike in the Spring. That's gonna run me about TWELVE THOUSAND DOLLARS after I make it just like i want it. Don't tell me about how expensive model railroading is. The vast majority of its many aspects can be fully enjoyed with minimal monetary output...such as building scenery, laying track and even DCC. I've had hard financial times in my long life (I'm 65) and there were a few times when I sold some of my model railroad stuff to pay the bills...but...I always was able to still enjoy the hobby doing the more time consuming and least expensive things. Just putting my two bits worth in here as I am totally NOT in the same universe as most of the posters on this thread. Now it's time for me to get back to the workbench modifying my new Kato FEF-3 to suit my rivet-counter eyeballs....a beautiful, excellent running model, and it was a real bargain at only 197 2014 dollars...waaaaay cheaper than my other FEF's which are brass imports and cost me in the neighborhood of 600 bucks apiece with I bought 'em in the 80's and 90's back in the last century. I'm really looking forward to running several of 'em at the Evanston Show next year in August pulling a fast MOW train and the eastbound Pony Express Mail Train out of Ogden. Of course, my son will be there with me, along with several others with their sons and daughters too! Cheerio! and a Happy New Year! Bob Gilmore
I grew up only a few hours from the big train shows up north and my dad took me to them year after year after year.. Then I got moved down and dumped in the south east. The train shows here barely fill a space the size of a basketball court. So I've seen the grand shows and I've done plenty of tiny ones, and I have noticed the changes over the years... There is too much Lionel at all shows. It is pervasive, all the vendors seam to think they have gold and NO ONE is buying it. My local show finally put their foot down and limited the number of vendors who could sell used Lionel. It had gotten to were it was actually difficult to find anything else and easily 9 out of 10 booths were piled with it. Once the vendors were limited, it made huge improvement in what was being offered, however... Vendors still think they are selling gold. I found so much stuff marked up way above MSRP. I guess the vendors are just greedy and trying to cash in on newbies or people's excitement because they are at the show or are blatantly stupid and have never heard of the internet before. Considering the age of some of them, there is definitely a digital divide in the hobby. I walk around with the internet in my pocket and within moments I can find out if what you are selling me is a good deal. I'm not going to pay a substantial mark-up just to buy something at a show. Here's the unpopular truth: it is entirely the vendor's fault. You want to do a good business at a show? Then you need to sell what the customer wants at prices they are willing to pay. That's basic retail. The hobby isn't failing so much as it is changing. We do need new blood, but right now there is a severe lack of more economically priced entry level stuff as so many companies are shifting to making high end models.
This year's IRF show i n Roseville had the highest attendance since 2009. Large number of kids and families. Lots of indicators show the hobby is not dying, i have to wonder what you are looking for that you aren't finding? In my experience shows are about old stuff and rare stuff. In terms of deals. HO has it easier for this, but hunting through old Microtrains boxes looking for something rare or not in your collection. Or a cheaper old car to fill out the fleet is what I got to train shows for. I was thrilled a few years ago to get an old Atlas GP9 and classic LL GP38-2 for $10 total. A great bargain. Why would I even bother looking for something new like an FEF? That's not going to be in an estate sale which is where most of the best show deal as come from.
I'm starting to get the feeling that some of the differences in perception may be due to the old Realtor's adage...location, location, location. Some areas seem to be doing quite well, others not so much. I'm also inclined not to put too much faith in the hobby dying, as that has been a constant refrain for quite a while. Is it possible, even likely, that the hobby is suffering in some areas and thriving in others? Sure it is. That is quite possibly normal and to be expected. I suspect, though, that if the hobby was in danger we'd be seeing much more talk about companies (manufacturers) going under and folding. And I'm not seeing that. And I will say that my experience has been that the larger events, like WGH or Greenberg, do better at attracting vendors than the smaller, local events.
I would disagree. We are not as litigious as we once were. Tort reform has occurred in just about every state and juries are no longer giving away 8 million to an idiot who spilled hot coffee in her lap. By the way, after making all the headlines, that case was appealed. The woman got about $42,000 which was just about what her legal expenses were. Of course that part did not make the headlines. I think the biggest thing to hit the train show circuit is the lack of new product. With the preorder system now in place very little of the new stuff is reaching the average venders. I see very little of new product at shows. Second is the cost of new product. So what I am seeing is the recycling of old product from estates and stuff that never sold in the past. Half of the time I think a lot of venders are there for the social aspects as some of their pricing is insane. I know one vender who has been trying to go out of business for the last six years. Let's face it noone fails at going out of business. You either do it on your terms or on someone else's terms. Everytime I see him I ask him if he is still going out of business and he responds afirmatively. And he smiles when he says it.
Go to Trainfest, and you're on the wrong side of the coin. Or High Wheeler in our area. Lots of kids. Perhaps it's the promoters not doing a good job? Trainfest and High Wheeler always make sure to have kids activities planned as well as layouts. Plenty of chairs on the outside ring of the main building for eating. You just need to head out and get your hand stamped. The often repeated, always misinformed case. The McDonald's case which is often referred too, the plaintiff won. A lot. McDonald's was shown to heat their coffee at extreme temperatures, as they did studies that said most people did not drink it for X amount of minutes. By then, it would reach the best temperature, and not be possible to burn people. It's why they (and everyone else) now has the warnings on their cups.
Somehow over the last 20 or so year the demographics of this area have changed. We went from a wealth of local hobby shops to a pathetic few who have little to no RR related items and an even more pathetic selection of anything N scale if at all. Shows and events that were mostly railroad related have decreased considerably and to even come close to a good show I have to drive up to outside Baltimore. While there are some railroad clubs even they seem to have decreased in number around the beltway. Other than the Ntrak folks there is still the club that operates out of the old Vienna, VA train station and they are HO. The three times a year Greenberg shows have seemingly decreased to one and maybe two a year that is reasonably close to me. And that show has degraded to a mostly toys and other things, with a overwhelming number of large scale Lionel folks with tables of rusty old tinplate. The only other train venders present in number are for the most part HO only. Finding anyone who has even a halfway decent selection of N scale is akin to being on a Easter Egg hunt with the eggs very cleverly hidden. And the days of any multi building show being held in Chantilly are long over since the other exhibition hall was sold and is now a Walmart. The show most recently there had the building less than half full, with the rest just empty space. By contrast the shows I have gone to outside Baltimore, including the Greenberg ones have always had a decent selection of vendors that never seem to make it this far south and usually I can find something related to my modeling whether tools, scratch building supplies and kits, or the occasional car, or locomotive at reasonable prices. And the trip has always been worth it even with the hours drive through traffic and construction zones, because there is always my favorite dealer M.B. ****** just down the road from there. I always manage to come away with something out of there if my money is still in my pocket from the show. With my impending move further south my last trip up to Baltimore may come this spring because I will not be spending ten hours on the road, round trip time, to attend those shows up there. I know that the Tidewater area has a couple of shows so I may try one of those since it will only be about a 30 minute trip one way. I may even try one in Richmond at least once.
Quite correct. What he quoted must be some sort of urban myth. Despite "tort reform" assumptions, people are still filing suits, with associated consumed time and costs. And costs of insurance for gatherings have gone way up. The one railfan gathering in our area is gone because of overall skyrocketed costs, including raised insurance.
This is a good point and very much used to be the case when I was a young lad attending shows with my late father. However, at many shows I have attended locally, the other dealers-- including a non-trivial number who price everything like gold-- swoop in prior to the show opening and scoop all the bargains, which they then proceed to reprice at double, triple or more of what the original seller asked for, or put aside for sale on eBay later (cf. 'eBay humor' thread). I witnessed this personally on many an occasion when I exhibited at some of these shows. There are at least two people out there who attend shows in this area and actually BRAG to (potential) customers about how effective this tactic is. Our little group of Tuesday Night Gang members respond to this by putting out their items and then covering the tables until showtime actually starts.
At some shows, an advance or early admission ticket is available (at a premium above the general admission price) which entitles the holder to enter the show hall an hour, or so, before the official opening time. The dealers may still be setting up, but it's a chance to seek out the best bargains ahead of the crowd. I've also heard of a few people who will buy a table at a show - even though they have no plans to sell anything - just to be able to get in early.
I've seen this happen many times. They bring in a few items, which they've no intention of selling, to populate the table. Then they'll disappear for the rest of the day, out shopping. Have watched some come gleefully back, stuff goodies in boxes under their table, then off they go again.
Something no one has brought up yet is the fact that in a lot of areas, trains are not nearly as prevalent as they were 40 or 50 years ago. I think this has almost as much impression on youngsters as our models do. When I was a year to two years old, my parents lived in an apartment overlooking the Wabash Chi-Decatur mainline and its parade of freight and passenger trains. My mother has always said she thinks my love of trains came from our living so close at the time. Everytime I heard a horn I went running to the window to watch them pass. I have tried very hard to pass my hobby down. Out of my two sons, one has no interest while the other does like running my models and actually ended up being an engineer for CSX. My two year old grandson on the other hand is absolutely enamored with trains. I actually built him a small N scale layout ( just a loop of Unitrack right now) and picked up an old Trix FM switcher and a bunch of cheapo cars at train shows that I know will get damaged but it parts of the learning process. Probably have less than $50 total in it but he heads straight for it everytime he's over. Yes grandpa has to supervise and help with rerailing things, etc., but I see that spark in his eye. He may drift to other interests at different ages like we all have ,but hopefully he will always return to model railroading. Bob
I have two sons and have enjoyed taking them to shows since they were born. Three years ago at the National Train Show in Sacramento (2011), some very generous N scalers (FreeMo-N) handed over their iPhones to my then 5 and 6 year old boys. They ran trains for the rest of the day (3 hours or so..and then the entire next day) and I was smiling the whole time. Since then, we've been invited to run trains on multiple FreeMo-N show layouts with the guys (mostly Silicon Valley Lines members). Because of all this, my boys are still heavily interested in N scale. They draw new module ideas and push me to keep the layout progressing. A couple nights ago, I followed M.C. Fujiwara's blog on building trees. The boys helped me and we're on our way to populating our module set for the train show this weekend (mentioned above...the Craneway @ Richmond, CA on Jan 3-4).
Ain't it great??? This brought lots of memories back for me as both my sons are now 27 and 28...and still model railroaders! Here they both are, 20+ years ago... Cheerio! Bob Gilmore
