Could it be a new mountain unit? Extended frame eight axles with articulated trucks? It would give teriffic traction force for heavy mountain trains. Who will build it first EMD ao GE? Arthur. [ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: Arthur ]</p>
Well, it will be some time before we know, as EMD has all resurch on the SD89MAC right now, and GE is just intrested on improving current 4400HP designs. If we do see a 8 axle AC unit it will be produced first by GE, as they have all the frame-work read for such a design
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Arthur: Sorry but I didnt see the thread about the 8 axle south american unit when I wrote this. Arthur. <hr></blockquote> Thats okay, We all make mistakes
EMD actually has a testbed SD89MAC, GM92, that has been running around with two of the flared UP SD70Ms for emissions testing. I believe it is called an 89MAC bacause it will have a lower horsepower rating than 6000 HP (what was wrong with the 80MAC at 5000?). I have heard it is around 5500. I don't think locos will get much bigger, but who knows. The problem in weight and heavier rail becomes an issue. 8 axle units wouldn't be out of the question, but in my opinion are a remote possibility.
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Harron: EMD actually has a testbed SD89MAC, GM92, that has been running around with two of the flared UP SD70Ms for emissions testing. I believe it is called an 89MAC bacause it will have a lower horsepower rating than 6000 HP (what was wrong with the 80MAC at 5000?). I have heard it is around 5500. I don't think locos will get much bigger, but who knows. The problem in weight and heavier rail becomes an issue. 8 axle units wouldn't be out of the question, but in my opinion are a remote possibility.<hr></blockquote> Good point, Corey. The 80MAC only found favor with CR, so I too wonder what was wrong with that. I don't remember what the rating of the new 89MAC was, but I was thinking it was around 4500 h.p. but would have to research the specifics. Harold
SD89MAC-H is uses a Highly Effecent 4500HP 12V265H engine for its prime mover, its still under heavy development and wont be out till at least 2003-4 where it will be the replacement to the 70 series, The reason the 80MAC isnt to popular is that it uses a 20V710G3C prime mover, 20 cyls! And it guzzles fuel like candy, Also it does not meet current EPA Tier 2 requirements. CR's are likely the last SD80MAC's we will ever see built unless EMD changes the design of the Prime Mover to meet rquirements. Rumor had it that CP was looking at the SD89MAC, but with there current contract with GE to for-fill 100 more AC4400CW's after the current 50 before making any other locomotive purchese's kinda puts any EMD plans CP had on hold for a few years.
Hey guys, doesn't some of these large diesels like the 4400's and the C60's have steerable trucks???? Or well articulated trucks. How they can call them "steerable trucks" i'll never know... But their still articulated in a manner... Which ones have these?
4500 HP from a V12?!?!?! GE has had big problems with their P32ACDMs, which have the 12cyl engine to make room for the HEP. Guess it really strains the 12 cyls. Best desing (in my opinion) would have a 16 cyl engine, like the 40-2 and 70
Yes indeed, 4500HP from a V12. And it has the Same HP per Cyl as its V16 brother, EMD has better luck with there smaller prime movers. It doesnt matter about the amount of cylenders but it depends on the displacement of those cylenders. For instance, Catipiller has a 5000HP and 6000HP V12 prime movers and they proform well (but arent very suited to RR task) Also look at NS's GP59 fleet, a V12 710 puting out 3000HP, it has always had high reliablity marks, As did the GP49 and GP39 series. And for a extreme look at the Chessie System GP15T's and Seaboards MP15T's which generate 1500HP from a V8 645 prime mover.
Also going on to GE, the Genisis series has never been GE's greatest product, GE's B32-8 frieght units (owned by NS) and all the C/B30-7A's which use a simular prime mover all did fairly well in frieght service. Had Conrail properly maintained the C32-8 fleet it too could have had high marks.
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 7600EM_1: Hey guys, doesn't some of these large diesels like the 4400's and the C60's have steerable trucks???? Or well articulated trucks. How they can call them "steerable trucks" i'll never know... But their still articulated in a manner... Which ones have these?<hr></blockquote> John, I believe you are right... but I don't remember which units had them Harold
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 7600EM_1: Hey guys, doesn't some of these large diesels like the 4400's and the C60's have steerable trucks???? Or well articulated trucks. How they can call them "steerable trucks" i'll never know... But their still articulated in a manner... Which ones have these?<hr></blockquote> I think GE tried steerable trucks on the 44's as well as the 60's. I don't have any reference materials at hand to check. Harold
I know the larger HP loco's have the streerable trucks and all but, I can't seem to rember which ones as well.... EMD i'm not sure about though....
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 7600EM_1: I know the larger HP loco's have the streerable trucks and all but, I can't seem to rember which ones as well.... EMD i'm not sure about though....<hr></blockquote> The CW44ACs were the first units with steerable trucks, starting with CSX 201 and continuing through the new ones that are still being delivered. The photo of CSX 1 in the CSX Photo Archives shows that it's been retrofitted with them - not sure if any others have, although they probably will be if they go through heavy services or rebuilds. The first batch of 3 CW60ACs were originally delivered with the regular Hi-Ad trucks like on most other railroads' Dash 9s and CSX's early CW44ACs, but the first two CW60ACs were later refitted with steerable trucks - I believe CSX 600 has Generation I trucks, like most GE units, while CSX 601 has Generation II trucks. The two units were used in the Grafton area to compare their performance. All the new units after the original 3 prototypes appear to have come with steerable trucks. Just FYI, EMD calls their steerable trucks "Radials", which I think is an EMD trademark. The SD70MACs all came with these. They are apparently a much simpler design than GE's, but I don't know how they compare in terms of performance. Hope that helps!
Dave, I thought that the G.E.'s steerable trucks were called "Steerable" and the EMD's were "radials".... I wasn't real sure on it though... And the comparison, was they in good resources???? They seem to be a good alternative to rigid trucks... flexibility, and all and powered on all axles.... The adhesion and traction ought to be really high!
<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 7600EM_1: Dave, I thought that the G.E.'s steerable trucks were called "Steerable" and the EMD's were "radials".... I wasn't real sure on it though... And the comparison, was they in good resources???? <hr></blockquote> That's correct, that's what I meant to say - the EMDs are called "Radial" trucks in their product line. Someone corrected me once on another list because I used that name in reference to GE's trucks, and they pointed out that it's a proprietary name, and GEs are called "steerable". Not sure which comparison you're refering too - the GE Gen I and II trucks? I read about that test in Railpace, probably a year or two ago. <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>They seem to be a good alternative to rigid trucks... flexibility, and all and powered on all axles.... The adhesion and traction ought to be really high!<hr></blockquote> Another big factor that the railroads like is the reduced wear on the rails and wheels - the steerable trucks allow the wheels to follow the rails, keeping the axle perpendicular to the rails. This keeps the flanges from grinding against the rail as they do on rigid trucks and makes both the rails and wheelsets last longer. Have a great weekend folks! [ 07 December 2001: Message edited by: drolsen ]</p>
Both EMD's Radial and GE's Sterable trucks are Technically considered "Self-Steering Trucks" They both work by the same princable too, the actuall truck itself does not move but the Axle's are "Steered" though the curve, (on EMD's at least) The movement of the axle's is only minor, about 1/2 inch travel in eather direction at most. On EMD's Radial (as mentioned above that name is proprietory and is in fact copyrighted by EMD) Axle movement is acheved by by Hydrolic Equipment Coupled to the Axles around the bearing area's. On GE's Steerable Axle Movement is also acheved by Hydrolics, but the assembly is much differnt. the Hydrolics are located on the inside of the trucks (anchored to a internal frame of the truck) and coupled to parts of the sideframes which are permintately coupled to the axles, So the whole sideframe/axle is steered into the curve, This heavy and elaberate arangement makes GE's truck far more expensive and complex to maintain, however new GE trucks suposibly ride better and dont realy as heavly on all the wheels being worn the same size as EMD's design. EMD's design is far simpler and proforms better, but requires all the wheels be all the same size and isnt as well riding. (expecally when there's wheel slip) EMD was first to experment and build units with radial trucks, SD60 demo EMD 3 was the first locomotive to be built with radials in 1985 (might have that year wrong, but it was the middle 80's) a ATSF GP50 was also tested with a 4 axle version, (unsuccessfull). all 4 SD60MAC demos built in 1991 for BN had em, and they came standard on the SD70 series introduced in 1992. GE not to be second done quickly started work on there own version, A totally differnt design had to be Developed by GE because EMD had almost every design aspect of there Radial design patented. As mentioned earlier GE's first unit with "self-stearing trucks" was CSX 201 (CSX 1 was also tested with em) which was delevered around 1996.
So the GE loco's have a lateral motion device (kinda) and the EMD has a articulated truck? Or vice versa. The way it sounds this is what it amounts to!
