I've got a question for the group, and I'd like to hear some options. I've got a room I'm finishing that will be "dad's train room" when I'm done. It's not big enough, but then would a room ever be "big enough"? I was planing on building a double-decker layout, and even have designed up a "no-lix" that loops around a mountain and then climbs up one wall to get to the upper level. The current design gives me 24" between levels. The lower level will be fairly deep 4' to 6' deep with a "hatch" in the middle of the large part for access. Because I'm modeling HO, I've decided on 28" radius curves as my desired minimum radius. On the upper level, I then have to have it almost the same depth all over to handle the large curves. I also have designed in a helix on the upper level to feed trains around the ceiling in the adjoining family room. The hatch would be located under the upper-level helix. Ambitious, isn't it? How much space would you recommend between the levels? If we typically recommend 20" seperation for shallow layouts of about 2' or less in depth, that would indicate that I should look for a bunch more than 20", more like 30" between levels? What would you recommend? Mark in Utah P.S. The basement should be completed around the end of this year, so the layout construction won't be until then.
I highly recommend you do a card board mock up of the two levels to see what it will look like. I suspect you may not like it as with such a wide layout, and double decked, you will find it visually difficult to see "into" the lower level. Don't forget the fascia is going to block part of that view, even if at 24". It sounds like you will have plenty of room, so why not try another configuration. I have a double deck with 20 inches of seperation. At the widest location, with an over and under section the same width (approximately), it is about 40 inches wide, tapering quickly. At its widest location, with a very shallow fascia it still is starting to become a visual problem, with bending over required to look into the furthest reaches of it. Fortunately, it is at a location where I can get at it from the end, physically and visually, and in the tapered area, physically and visually. Get some cardboard, masking tape, and a friend to help. Set up the two levels with the width you propose and have friend help hold the cardboard. You only need this temporary mock up up about 10 minutes to get a feel for what you are after, or whether you like the seperation or not. I suspect you won't like it. Don't forget with 24 inches of seperation, with fascia (even shallow at that) the seperation (visually) will be even less.
I strongly agree with Rick's suggestion to build a mockup. I did this and left it n place for several days with minor adjustments, etc, before feeling comfortable with an arraingement. A lot depends on your height and the relative height of the two levels. I stand 6'1", my levels are at 42" and 58", mostly. However, my deepest lower level scene is only about20". Here is what I've done on one section which is a little over 5' wide: The top level is the full width deep, with removable access panels. The bottom level visable scene is only 18" wide, a 4 track main line (NYC) along the Hudson with cliffs behind. The cliffs conceal the staging tracks behind, which loop at the end of the peninsula and return against the far wall, with a space 23" wide between, which I can pop up in to remove those access panels on the top level. Haven't had to yet, but I can. Gary
The deeper parts of the lower layout will be main-line track running through a mountainous area. Those areas towards the front will be where the switching and "business" end of the operations will take place. Give that I'm 5'10", and I definately want my kids and eventually grand-kids to be able to operate this layout (I tend to plan ahead), I'll want to keep the upper level down to the 50-55" height range. If I need 30" seperation between levels for good views and access, then that will put the lower level some where around the 25" level. A bit short for myself, but my 5 year old would certainly love it! If I raise the overall layout, then I'd have to use a stool for the upper level, which would relegate it to storage or access only to the loop around the ceiling in the family room. That just may be the answer. Main level for all the running, and the upper level for staging and storage. Mark in Utah
Kids grow, and fast. Forget the height for your granddaughter now, 25 inches is pretty low. And it will be a bear to work on, underneath. I procrastinaed a bit on our layout to wait while my son grew. The upper height is 57 inches. Our lower is 37 inches, because of a window, I couldn't go higher on the upper elevation. If I could have raised the upper to 59 I would have and had the lower at 39. Higher on the lower is better.
Think in terms of line of sight (For you not the kids - like Rick said - kids grow) Standing next to the layout - double deckers that appeal to me have upper levels that don't block my view of the lower level. The deeper the scenes, the more separation is needed. Scenes that are more than 30" deep are going to be compromised IMO by double decking. Deep lower decks and shallow upper decks serve two purposes: The first is pleasent viewing and the second is ease of constuction. I for one love super deep scenes and would not want to have to crouch to see them. One thing to remember - on upper decks it is very easy to force perspective with smaller scale structures near the backdrop so you can make scenes look deeper than they really are. [ 06 March 2002, 04:22: Message edited by: yankinoz ]
That 4' to 6' wide bench work will give you problems. I don't care for any idea with an access hatch. I would try to keep your bench work 3' or less wide if you can. This way you can get to every thing by leaning across the layout. One thing for sure is to make sure that you have full access to all of the Helix, and I don't mean a trap door in the side. The bad rail joint will be on the exact opposite side of the side opening trap door. Iit is a real great feeling watching your 30+ car coal train, hit that bad rail joint, slowly tip over, and then fall to the floor! Have a way that you can get to any part of the Helix as quick as you need to. Unless you build your Helix 100% perfect the first time, you will want access to the whole thing so that you can fix derailments, and do trackwork inside the Helix. Build a mock-up with card board, and work with the mock-up for a while. Let some fellow model railroaders see the mock-up, and see if they have any ideas about it. Sometimes other people will see things that the owner/builder has missed.
