Sorry. This may have been already discussed. Today I saw someone's 3D models in Rail Images that were astoundingly well made; including a turntable. I think it was N or Z.. As it grows and improves will, say, Athern, Atlas, Bachmann, IHC, et al, go belly up or maybe remain only chassis and drivetrain (motor/gearing/axle-wheel) makers ? Do you see it never coming down to this ? I mean, what will be the norm in 10-15 years, if not sooner ?! On the other hand, considering the cost for the printer, accessories for it, having to paint, add trucks, and couplers to every car and their correct livery (hand painted/decal) may very well be what prevents such a takeover..No?.. M
The fidelity will no doubt get better over time, but finishing a 3D printed item to factory standards remains a lot more work than most modelers will wish to do. Those who are already skilled with painting and detailing will certainly benefit as a growing variety of uncommon items become available via 3D printing. The rest of us will continue buying factory-finished locos and rolling stock as our budgets allow. Structures are a different matter. Most of us already paint and detail our structures, so 3D printed buildings might have a broader appeal. But the cost/quality equation has to improve before we'll all be printing decent structures at home. Crafter's cutting machines like the Cricut series are being used to cut styrene pieces for scratch-built structures. From what I have read, these can be made to work pretty well. But you still have to design the building! - Jeff
I may be wrong, but, I get the impression that the hobby has evolved over time. From castings in many forms, with a variety of materials, to tin plate, to injected plastic. From kits made with paper parts to RTR. I don't have a factual history of the hobby that many enjoy today, but I feel that 3D printing will be just another method of making models. Price and quality will get to where they are acceptable, or something better/different will come along to replace it. Isn't that how evolution and progress works! Jim
I see the main problem with 3D printed models to be the finishing. Depending on what kind of printer you have, the extrusion layers are visible. Unless your train is made of corrugated aluminum, every visible surface needs to be sanded. I have some 3D printed shells right now, and I just want to start over with styrene scratchbuilding. The plastic is hard to sand and then any detail you put on the shell has to be built back up anyways. It isn’t styrene, so the common model glues don’t work on it. The Shapeways printers are better because they work a little differently, it’s you still need decals and paint for the model. 3D printing doesn’t make it any easier.
Hey, thanks for all the input.. I'm glad to see the 3D printer is, so far, no threat to the hobby manufacturers.
Yeah, it’s not like I hate them or anything. I think they have a lot of potential, but they still need to become more developed before the detail we need as modelers is cheap enough to justify their use for more mainstream products.
I agree Mr. T. My grandson uses them in his lab and they are extremely precise, producing perfect products. However, they cost in the hundreds of thousands because they print sinterred Titanium. I believe we'll see 3D printers that the general small business can afford in 10+/- years. I remember that color TVs started at about $5000 in the late 1950s ($15-20,000, 2018 equivalent), but soon became affordable for common folk at less than $1000 in 5-10 years. Now color TVs cost chump change. I just bought a 23" 1080P for about $100. If you can wait 10+ years, our favorite manufactures will be pumping out models by the hundreds. Ha, I can see it now....I call up my favorite manufacturer and ask for a B&M boxcar, and it's delivered in a week. Of course I still have to paint and decal it. But that's a whole bunch better than waiting for that manufacturer to decide there's a big enough market for him/her to ask China to run a couple of thousand.
Guys - I don't know if this will impress you or not - but I've been playing around with my new 3D printer at home. $539 shipped. Here is a picture of my very first print. I wasn't expecting anything great because this is a new printing technology for me (I've been printing with the older tech where your print lines are of concern) Honestly I expected to get a gooey blob because...first print, right? Well no. To say I'm blown away is an under statement. It printed the railings, ladders, smoke stack and... RIVETS. N Scale rivets! Honestly I can see this printer giving better results than Shapeways in certain applications. This thing is amazing. They ship the printer with this fancy see-thru green resin, which is great and all, but you can't see details so I hand brushed some primer so you can see what I'm talking about. Couple things - don't buy this printer if you're not a hard core nerd that knows how to make your own 3D models, or if you don't have a well ventilated area to put this in, or if you don't like to tinker. Also realize the build area is TINY, so you'll need to be a creative type to work within those limitations. Having said all that, the tech we're looking for is here today and affordable. I hope to put this thing thru more paces to really see what I can get away with. This is some exciting tech to be sure!!! Cheers -Mike PS. The printer is the Anycubic Photon.
That printer does look solid. The resin ones are better than the plastic extrusion ones, so I might have to get familiar with those. Another hurdle that the technology will have to overcome is print volume/area. I think you have already experienced that. There are great and pretty cheap printers out there, but as an HO guy, I need about a foot in any direction to print passenger cars and longer trains. The accurate printers just need to be scaled up with more print space.
Yeah, there's definitely a sweet spot for either N or Z depending on what you want to do. HO could benefit from detail items, automobiles, building interiors, loads, people, maybe structure details (think window frames, electrical boxes, AC units, playgrounds) I forgot to mention a couple of other caveats to this printer. First don't expect to be doing high-volume prints as, depending on resolution, some prints can take 12+ hours. The caboose was almost six hours with very high resolution. And there are "consumable" parts to the printer that need to be considered. There's a thin transparent film that needs to be replaced periodically which requires dis-assembly of the resin vat. Not a big deal. But - also the LCD screen itself is a consumable as the UV backlight does wear it out over time. No idea how long that takes but I imagine if you're printing small volume one-offs it would take awhile. Still, you'd be expected at some point to disassemble your printer and replace the LCD screen so there is a commitment to keep it running required. Mike
Maybe there is an analogy to be made to decals, in the same way that the inkjet/laser printer did not replace decal making companies. 3d printing is more geared towards prototypes and not mass production (as it is now). Difficult to predict what will happen in a few years, as leaps are made in the field as we speak.
I am interested in the Shapeways printed brass. Someone has designed a Baldwin freight motor, but they are too light to pull a decent train. If it was in bras, the extra weight might make a huge difference in pulling.
I was surprised at the detail their brass printing offers. I did nscale pantographs and modeled the (non-functional) lifting springs and you could see the coil details. Downside to brass is cost - something like a loco shell would probably run in the low hundred bucks range. You should send the Balwin designer a message and have him give you a quote, or see if he'd be willing to design some weight reservoirs that would fit between the shell and whatever mechanism is being used.
Oof - okay maybe some tungsten putty or lead shot suspended in glue inside the roof? Good looking model but yeah not a lot of room!
Right now, 3D printing makes it possible for individual modelers to get the cars, locomotive shells, buildings, motor vehicles, etc. not offered by the usual manufacturers. Case in point- I was at a joint MP/Frisco convention in Missouri a few years ago, and watched a demonstration of how a 3D printer could be used to make an accurate model of a MP trackside structure.
3D tech will eventually become just another standard type of use for people at home and manufacturers. some have been using the tech for some time to prototype their designs before spending money on molds and equipment changes. As resin printers become more affordable and large scale batch printers become more accessible, places like shapeways will begin to include them. liquid resin is starting too look really good to me. I've been a SW designer and printer for 3yrs now and thought it would be another 3-4 before i get a home printer. that might be next year now.
3D printing is a really cool and useful process. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's going to take a long time for the cost to come down into line with higher volume production processes if it ever does. Then there's the cost of the design work if you don't know how yourself. That said, if you want a model that no one offers, it's probably the way to go, short of bending, embossing and soldering brass sheet like the old days and the basic CAD skills really aren't as tough to learn as you might think.
