Hello folks, I'm new on the forum and am getting back into the hobby after a 14-year absence. Had a simple HO layout as a teenager (I've still got locos and rolling stock). Started a 9 x 12 L-shaped HO layout 14 years ago. I had the L-girder benchwork up along with homasote and most of the cork roadbed. Then, I got transferred, tore up the layout, and had children. The rest is history. My boys are now 9 and 12 and are very interested in building a layout with me. I don't want to bite of another mid-sized project that will take a lot of time as I'm afraid the boys will lose interest. So, we're going to go for an N scale door layout. Unfortunately, I'm not concerned about prototypical realism here. For now, we just want 1) a fun project that will be 2) fun for boys to operate. I'm planning on building the layout on 2" blue or pink foam assuming I can find it. DCC may be overkill for a door layout, but I'm thinking that I will go that route for wiring simplicity as well as to get a feel for DCC before constructing a larger layout down the road. Also, I'm thinking this will help with the boys trying to deal with reverse loop operations. In the Northfield & Wichita thread, theskunk was gracious enough to provide the link to Mike's Small Trackplans page. My boys were immediately drawn to one of the most ambitious plans on the page... the "three-lap pretzel plan" attached. I would really welcome any feedback I can get on this plan considering my goals. Also, the plan is drawn in RTS. I'm considering using Kato Unitrack. Any concerns or advice on converting the plan in XTrkCad or as to whether Unitrack is appropriate for that layout would also be welcome. Looking forward to your feedback. Nick PS - A very special thank you to Trainboard member Jim Reising who let me take my boys to his house to view his layout in progress. Very impressive work, Jim.
Caution: Opinion Follows This is just my opinion and as such may not apply: A turntable takes up a disproportionate amount of room on a door layout. For me this is both a visual and practical thing. In a given area such a structure / area adsorbs 1/3 of the layout forcing impractical compromises. It is far to busy - track going everywhere Not enough room for storage - yard / etc I doubt Unitrack translates very well into Atlas track. I would like to offer alternatives but do not really have any at this time.
May be with your lads, just lay some track and play with it. They will want Grand Central and between that and what is practical you can experiment with different track plans before fixing on the final nailed down track. The big thing is enjoy with the boys.
1. HCD - good choice. Check Lowes, Home depot or local home improvement stores for a damaged doors. Most have damage only on one side. I bought a 28”X80” HCD with two quarter sized holes for $3. 2. Buy folding table legs. Again at Home depot or local home improvement stores. Good height for the boys to start with. The legs cost about $15-$20 and are easy to attach with some 1”X4” lumber. 3. Go with a simpler plan with some open space. It would be easier and faster to build. If you and the boys want more trains and track, just add to open area. 4. Start with a double oval with some passing sidings and/or some switching industries. Both boys can run part of the layout at the same time. 5. Have two or three track run to the edge of the door and add removable bumpers. You can add a full or half (folding door) to make a yard for the layout. This is the easiest way to expand the layout into an “L” shape and use in a spare bedroom. 6. Stay at a zero grade for now. Small layouts have steep grades. You may only be able to pull one or two cars up a 4% or 5% grade depending on what locomotive you run. 7. Go DCC. There are many products on the market to select from that are simple to set up and run. I have a Digitrax DSC50 with two extra throttles (“L” shape HCD). It has more than enough power and is expandable in the future. 8. Search this forum, surf the net and other forums for plans. Many are designed for Kato unitrak. 9. Go with Kato Unitrak if you can afford it. I will be the fastest to put together and the most reliable type of sectional track. Also, you can run trains and test multiple track designs; see which ones you and the boy like before you make a permanent layout. 10. Keep reading this forum. There is an incredible amount of experience and talent, and information posted by the members. They are probably your best source of information. Hope that helps. In the mean time; soak in all the replies, make a decision on a layout plan, start building and have fun with the boys. Thom
Thank you very much for the quick replies. Grey One: I totally agree with your concerns about the turntable. I actually was considering one of the track plans in poppy's Northfield & Wichita thread until my boys saw the plan on Dave's page. My concern about poppy's plan was that I thought it was busy. The plan from Dave's page is even more so... not to mention the added complexity of the turntable. However, I do want to build a layout that the boys will enjoy. Since it's for them, I may cave in to their demands. We'll see. Rowan: You may be right about just playing around first. Good, simple advice. Strangely enough, I hadn't considered that. I tend to go for the more aggressive solutions first and jump in with both feet. Allegheny: I love the folding table legs idea. I hadn't considered that. I will incorporate that. All three of you are advocating simpler plans. I have been concerned about this plan and understand where you are coming from. Aside from the turntable, the grade also concerns me as Allegheny mentioned. Unfortunately, my boys are adamant about a complex plan. Of course, they don't know what that really means in terms of work, time, planning, expense, etc. We will have more discussions about this. I do believe that I will go with Digitrax to start. Do you know of any sites with Unitrack track plan links? I've been looking and haven't found much. Thanks so much for the replies! Nick
Nick: Welcome to TrainBoard. You can use that plan and convert it to Unitrack if you lay out the track as you go along. I would avoid the turntable. Try and use radii of 13 3/4" on the layout if possible. Also try and get a door 36"x80". Then you'll have room for a larger radius. Have fun in N Scale.....
Nick, Found this link on the Kato website: N Track Plans - KATO USA : Precision Railroad Models Enjoy, Mike C.
the other nice thing about kato track is that you can just go buy the track and do a "test" layout on your floor, carpet, cement, tile, and get a feel for how the layout will look and what it will require. I've currently got a unitrack layout on my bedroom floor on the carpet, and i've been playing with it for about 2 weeks now, I've learned a lot about the unitrack, and Digitrax controls, switches and what will be required for my final layout just by playing around with a simpler layout first. So my suggestion is, don't shoot down the complex layout just becasue it's complex. But rather try a simple layout on for size to get an idea of what's going to be involved and required for your desired layout. That's what I love about the unitrack, I've created probalby 15 different varaitions on my bedroom floor using the same ole pieces of track! It's very versitle.
Even thou I have two big layouts Im working on I found myself with a bunch of unitrack out of all of the train sets I had bought and then started reading about how much fun people were having with HCD layouts and so I started building mine with a simple 2 loops on the outside and a waterwing on the inside for my interurban. Sometimes its a blast just watching trains go around.
I suggest the Carolina Central with Uni-track on a 36x80 door. See Mike C. Link and a discussion over on atlas board with photo's from various versions Atlas Model Railroad Co. - New layout- the Carolina Central redo
Again, thanks to all for the replies. I heard that this was a great board for support. It's certainly living up to that reputation. Atomic, your suggestion sounds good. However, I don't believe I'll be using the bedroom floor as I don't believe my better half would be pleased, LOL. Dwayne, thanks for that link. I haven't been to that board. I definitely like that track plan. Grey One, excellent question! I would say that the must haves would at least include 2-3 different ways for a train to traverse the layout. That may include double-track and/or a reverse loop. Also, I've got to have a tunnel. Scratch that... the boys must have a tunnel. Multi-train operation is a must. It may be crowded on a door, but so be it. So, DCC. They like the idea of a grade and crossover. I'm not sure I want to tackle that. We'll see. This is a druther for the boys but not necessarily for me. The boys love the turntable idea. I don't. Too complex for this layout and too busy. I think I may have to stand my ground on this one. Must haves would also include a small industry or two and a very small yard and/or staging tracks of some sort. That's the list as it stands now. I'm continuing to think this through. Thanks!!!
Another idea that may not have been mentioned, but if a turn-table is a must for them, do it later on. Create a siding that leads off the layout at first as an 'interchange' track where an 0-5-0 (your left or right hand) can switch cars on and off the layout from presumably a different railroad, and leave it blank enough toward the end so that you can add a small extension, which could easily house your turn table/engine facilities/additional industry. Keep in mind, this can be as small as a 1x2 piece of foam with some framing underneath. -Rob
Good idea skunk. That may be a way around tackling a turntable right off the bat. Dwayne. I like 'em. I'll run them by my boys. Thanks guys!
Dwayne suggested the Carolina Central. I have to agree with him. This is a link to someone elses version of the Carolina Central. I hope trainboard doesn't mind me posting the link to another forum here and I hope Mr. KATY doesn't mind me posting his thread here. Its a great layout and he used a wider door than the plan called for so he added a third staging track in the back and a second industry track for his mill. There are some great pictures also. http://www.zealot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108951&highlight=Carolina+Central
Nick, Here a link to my layout HCD in-progress http://freerails.com/view_topic.php?id=1686&forum_id=7
memo from an old guy I built OUR railroad for my son and I. Sure wish i would have helped HIM build his railroad. Would have had a lot more fun together. Now I am retired and have plenty of time to build my railroad.
Mark, this is a great point and is at the heart of the matter. This layout is absolutely for them. But, this is a bit of a balancing act: 1) My boys have found a track plan that they love that is very aggressive for a first layout. 2) They don't really know what they are getting into with an aggressive layout design. 3) I want to be able to run trains in a reasonable amount of time (don't really know what this is, though) so they don't lose interest. 4) We will run into unforeseen construction issues that will slow us down. 5) Cost. We will be starting from scratch with N scale. With the aggressive layout, I'd say we're looking at $300-400 of track (at least) and another $300-400 for locos and rolling stock. Add another $200-300 for DCC and pretty soon you're talking real money. So, the discussions and research continues.
Dwayne, just checked out your layout in progress. VERY impressive stuff. It looks like you have really put a lot of work into planning. Thanks.
