Just that, what do you feel the maximum grade to be in-order not to have typical trains stall or slow down too much. The Marklin pillar sets seem to have 2 degree; is that a usual suggestion? How do you build?
2% is good. stay with that as much as you can. 3% is starting to press things. you begin to see traction suffer significantly. 4% when you simply HAVE TO but don't expect less than 2 engines to pull any more than 10 cars (in general). add curves to the grades and you deteriorate pulling performance even more significantly across the board. dave f.
I think you can get by with 4% before real issues begin. That is percent on a straight line! Once you start with curves you add friction. Two GP35's will pull 10 plus cars up 4%. Two GP35's will pull 15+ cars up 2%. If you have a small layout an need to get up and over then 3 or 4% is the way to go. Remember friction. If you are building a larger layout I would stick with 2%. If you like to go in one direction, ie. clockwise, then use 2% up and 3% down. Saves space. You can get many ideas and variables for your query. Everyone has a story. Cheers, Jim CCRR
If you are building a module to Z Bend Standards then 2% is the maximum on straights and 1.5% on curves.
If I remember correctly, Marklin pillars are pretty steep. Jim and David use the GP35 as a example for pulling power, but if you use Marklin engines, its going to be less because they are lighter. A alternative method to Marklin pillar is to use Woodland Scenic risers. The ones I seen are two degrees. Can you be more specific on how long and how big is your layout, then we can give you some specific answers.
Say, you have a bridge with 40mm (1.6 inch) under, enough height to have a train running under. You need about 44 inch straight run each side at 2 degree grade. From above, it was said that with turns, it is best to use 1.5 grade. Using the worst case (with a 44 x 2 + 4 inch bridge) you need 110 inches of track. Therefore, the smallest circle layout with a bridge, high enough to run a track under, would be 28 inch (712mm) square. (I measured Marklin. The pillars are 4mm increments. The straight runs are 110mm)
The 1.5% curve grade is the Z Bend standard for modules, not layouts. The small grades on Z Bend modules allows the running of longer trains. If long trains are not a priority or you don't plan running with other modules then you can have greater grades. I am working on a 80" Z Bend module that has two straight mainlines that cross in the middle. There is a similar one featured in one of the past Z Track issues. It's great to see you doing the math. I find the engineering a fun part of building the layout.
One sure way to find out is to build what you want with temporary risers and see how it works with thr trains you want to run, then you can adjust the risers as needed before making the track permanent. I prefer to make my track level, and make the scenery go up and down, as that's what the real railroads try to do. When the real railroads need to, they build a grade, then run as many locos as needed to get the trains over that grade. I tested an AZL GP7 to climb a 20% grade on clean track due to its traction tire's gripping.
Has anyone experimented with how much the application of Bullfrog Snot (liquid traction tire) improves grade climbing?
This is one way of installing grade on your layout.zcentralstation.com - Gallery - Category: GNFan\'s Layout - Picture: My Layout
I purchased a jar of it from Z Scale Monster to try, but have not had the time yet. I plan on examining my Marklin Mikado, to see which drivers are the furthest from the rails, then applying the bullfrog snot to that loco first. I know I can only pull 10 cars with that loco, so any more is an improvement. As far as grades, i will do a before and after grade test.
I used traction tires on the GP35, and it works but at a price. It tends to stall on turnouts at low speed. If you only going to run it on the mainline, then it works great. Once it goes into the yard, you better turn the cars over to a switcher.
yes, it's great stuff! i have only a loop of track currently, so i can't give your specifics or precentage improvements. but i went from 10 cars to 15 with Snot on one of my less than stellar performing marklin steamers. dave p.s. anthony at Z scale monster sells it.
Myself I chose to work with 3% grades (Woodlands Scenics inclines) on the small layout I'm workin on. These grades are associated with 14"/35cm radius curves. I'm running in the average a 18-20-car train consisting of a mix of MTL and AZL cars (lighter) and FR-Models hoppers and woodchip gondolas (heavier). Typically a trio of unmodified GP35 or a pair of SD70 are OK for the job. No stalls, no spinning wheels, but of course a far greater speed downgrade than upgrade, which implies to work the throttle like the prototype.:tb-wink: Dom
