Hey guys, I was railfanning in Fort Worth the other day. I was standing within 15 of their tracks, and a BNSF empty coal train flew by at upwards of 60 mph. The engineer blew 6 horn blasts instead of the usual four, which I didn't think was significant at the time. However, as the train went on, it seemed to be slowing down. As the end of the train approached, the train was certainly slowing down, and the 2 DPU's merely crept across the crossing near where I was filming. I may have been 'trespassing' on their property, but at the time I believed it was public. I wasn't in harm's way - I was 15 feet from the track! Is BNSF getting so strict on trespassing enforcement that they'd actually stop a train on a busy mainline to try and apprehend a trespasser? Needless to say, I got out of there quick, and waited until the train had gone on its way - it took them 20 minutes to start it back up. Am I just being paranoid? Did an airhose or a knuckle break, and I just happened to be standing around the place where it happened? I caught the whole thing on videotape, and I'll post in on Youtube within a week or so.
You are paranoid! LOL There's no way any railroad employee would stop a train in that scenario, unless perhaps they thought they hit you or something. If they believed you were a significant threat they would call the railroad police or perhaps 9-1-1. They probably just busted a hose or something. They would probably be fired if they stopped a train to accost a trespasser.
I will say this... You will likely find in the down economy that people will be less tolerant in general. So if you get "caught", either by railroad police or speeding by public law enforcement or whatever....you can bank on getting a citation. So be extra careful with the risk taking. Also make sure your registration/inspection is current...they will pull you over and ticket EVERY time, because it's easy money...at every least a $40-50 court fee to get it dropped in most cases. (this is in Texas of course...I know some states don't require annual inspection...I think all require some type of registration and insurance though)
paul probably got an airhose on the crossing, however within 15' of the tracks as stated is trespassing, the rr property extends 25' from the center of the tracks either direction unless other right of way property exists. and as far as harms way, 15' is well within harm's reach, have you seen the stuff that flies off of trains? a loose cable or chain on a load? brakeshoes can fly off easily and at 60mph is a small missile. 6 bursts on the horn could very well have been a warning to you if the crew thought you were too close.
When a train goes into an emergency brake application, it makes a very distinct "whooshing" sound as the brake pipe exhausts to the outer air. It is a very loud and distictive sound. What I am thinking is that the train may have experienced a penalty brake application. You mention that the train speed was "upwards of 60 mph". It could have been a penalty brake application due to overspeed. I cant say for sure or perhaps there was a speed restriction that the hogger may have been tardy braking for and gave the train a full set on the automatic. In any case like a full set or penalty application or emergency application, about 20 minutes sounds average for the brakes to pump off a release. One thing you must understand about air brakes, when you take a heavy brake pipe reduction, it is better to just let the train come to a stop and restore the system. With a heavy brake pipe reduction, if you release the brakes before the train comes to a complete stop, you run the risk of getting a knuckle or a drawbar since part of your train will have a set and the other part will have release. You also run the risk of equalizing the brake pipe pressure and rendering the automatic useless since the pressures cancel each other out. Then you have NO brakes! Let me assure you that is NOT a circumstance you want to happen with a coal train! You mentioned 6 blasts on the whistle. Some hoggers like to add a little flair to the Long,Long,Short. LOOOOONG crossing whistle per rule and they give a "toot toot' at the end. A bit "Casey Jones", but its done a lot, especially by the preservation operators. They wanna give the foamtographers and recorders a "big bang for their buck" ,IMO its a waste of valuable steam,but it keeps the railfans paying the big bucks to ride! Just a hint, 15' is a tad close to the ROW. When I was a brakeman or conductor on road freights, I would do "roll-by" inspections at meets while we were in the siding. I would get about 20' or so from the main and crouch down in the ditch or swale just so I could eye level the trucks. You dont wanna catch a loose tie-down cable or chains or loose lumber . You'll never have a chance to talk about it! Do your photography from a safe location, put the camera on a tripod and stand behind or below something or on a road overpass. Let the equipment take the beating, you can replace it! CT
15 feet away is waaaaaaaay too close! as mentioned flying stuff etc. along with the crew not knowing if you were going to jump in front of the train... :tb-shocked: Beware the head hunters! :we2-policeman: Don't get caught trespassing:tb-wink: No seriously TRY not to trespass ...:tb-biggrin:
Seeing as how it was an empty coal train... if it were an emergency brake application, induced or not, that 25-30 tons per operative brake would have brought the train to a screeching halt. Are there any absolute signals within, say 2-3 miles from where you were?
15 feet seems awfully close to the tracks- too close. As it's been said here, you're better off standing further back from the tracks to avoid being hit by something. One of the things to remember in this post-911 world is to be aware of where you're at when railfanning, and to avoid trespassing at all costs. Railroads these days are really cracking down on trespassers, especially around yards and in urban areas. As long as you're on public property, you should be OK. BTW- best place I know to railfan in the Ft. Worth area is up in Saginaw at the BNSF/UP crossing, along US287. Plenty of room to watch trains at a safe distance, and it's railfan-friendly. If you haven't been yet, I recommend it highly.
Fifteen feet is way too close. Especially if it places you on RR property. Athough this was an empty coal train, at other times you never know what could be hanging out, such as a piece of banding, dunnage or equipment. The only time I ever get that close, is at a place where the trains are moving slowly, where I am legally allowed.
That latter phenomenon is lovingly referred to by the crews as "pi$$ing away the brakes". It happens fairly often in commuter train service with trains having the "quick release" feature and an inexperienced engineer. The hogger can take a brake pipe reduction coming into a stop and if the train is slowing down too much,you can knock the brakes off, coast a bit and grab the air again. Normally there is no problem, and normally the hogger will only do it once,mebbe twice. If you do it more often or more rapidly, the system has not had a chance to fully charge the brake pipe and the pressure of the release will equalize with the pressure existing in the brake pipe and the system will sense it as being a no set or release meaning that the hogger will have to take a bigger reduction to effect a brake set. If you've already taken a 20lb or more reduction, you dont have much to work with unless you go to "handle-off" or emergency. I have had this happen with freight trains but not in a situation where it was dangerous. This is why all railroads want their engineers to use dynamic braking as the preferred method of braking. Modern day dynamic brakes are effective to a rather low speed and you only need the automatic to make the final stop. No you dont want to use the Independent for that. Thats why they call that brake the "jammer" cuz it'll get you in a jam alla time! Joe G. can prolly tell you some good stories about brakes,both automatic and dynamic! CT
Oh my.... I've been volunteered:tb-embarrassed: Not much time at the moment... but, mountain grade is all about brakes... you use dymanics, supplemented with automatic and the jam to stop/hold a train. Take something heavy(coal, grain, etc..) using 48-64 "axles" of dynamic braking, plus 9-11 lbs reduction and go along for the ride. These trains are usually 20 MPH down Tehachapi. Standard range dynamics are good down to 10 MPH, extended 6 MPH and AC units will nearly stop a train with dynamics, but we never see those:tb-sad: Start slowing down early, 'cause it'll take a while... when the dynamics start to fade, slam the jam to full, then feather it as needed to get to where you want to stop. Sanders help a lot too. Don't set anymore air, unless you absolutely have to. Now, brake friction creates a lot of heat... train brakes work better when they are nice and toasty... when you stop, the brakes cool and "creeping" takes place. This is where the train will move forward 10, 15, 20 feet... then stop, then move a little more, then stop, etc... There was a crew, years ago, that fell asleep and the train crept right past a red signal... Pi$$ing away the air... never a good idea... light TOB/high tonnage trains are a pain. Usually quite long, take forever to charge... a minimum set (6-8 lb reduction) will make the train stall out... to get around this, kick 'em off, let it charge about half way, then set another minimum... A "soft set"... this will give you a good set on the first part of the train, light set on the middle, and next to nothing on the rear... if you wait too long, the train will not roll, if you do it too soon, it's off to the races:tb-shocked: More later:tb-wink:
WOW i thought the brakes on a sand trailer were a pain in the @$$ i'll stick with 18 wheelers:tb-hissyfit:
I don't see it happening as often, but it could have been a dynamiter in the train. The engineer may have made a small reduction, and one car may have gone into emergency. Also, my experience is a little outdated, but aren't MT coal trains restricted to 50?
Here in California you are trespassing if you are between the fence line. It doesn't matter if that fence line is 50 feet away from the tracks. The UP and BNSF also have their own police force that checks the line frequently. I've met them more times then I would like to state, but I've never been issued a ticket. In fact I'm buddies with a few of the rapid responders and policemen today. I remember a funny story when I was taking photos one time and the train came to a stop in an odd way. The crew came over to have a chat... not to tell me to leave, not to yell, but to invite me up for a cab ride. It was a local and they dropped me off on the return trip. Gotta love the BNSF!!! :tb-biggrin: :thumbs_up:
Doancha just LOVE those trains with a "dynamiter" in them! Makes for such a fun trip while you are sitting on pins & needles just waiting for the durn thing to pop. Murphy's Law mandates that to occur at the most inopportune time in the most difficult location. CT
My RFE was check-riding me for my annual "signature". She had me work with a crew on a stack train out of Cicero. The regular crew was riding shotgun. She had me to take the train to Eola, on the "racetrack". Track speed for freight is 50mph on the "Racetrack"(3MT CTC). before we get to Eola she tells me, "Charles, use the dynamic to stop the train at Eola and be relieved there." OK! I am just concerned that I get the durn thing stopped somewhere in the Eola plant. Well we had a brace of Dash-9s on that stack train and the dynamics were working just fine! I got that train down to a creep and just feathered the Independent to stop the train with the footboards of the front platform lined up with the footpath from the yard office! It would have made a passenger engineer proud! When I worked commuter trains, I considered it a good stop if I got the required number of cars anywhere within the platform limits! LOL CT
I did stupid things when I was younger..I still do most of them but not this [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk3fxES5Rbc"]YouTube - coal train 0001[/ame]
What artistic value is there in that video? Was the photog just trying to prove how close he could get to the gauge? CT
Joe, Have you ever had to set retainers on a train? I never did. All I cared about was that we had to know about them for requalifying exams. The biggest two grades I ever had to deal with was the Edelstein Hill on the ATSF side. I was a dogcatch conductor and we got a train there, right on the Hill! About half the train had handbrakes applied! LOL The other time was another dogcatch, in W.Burlington IA. I think its called the "K Line" but CRS! The train was sitting up on the hill,on a curve. It was actually on the high bluff of the river and joined with the Transcon. There is only one safe side to walk on, the inner side,so I had to walk that side to access all the hand brakes and, of course, half of them were on the side opposite from me, so I hadda use the crossover platforms. But never had to set or use retainers! CT
