Has any one used these locomotives before? I recently obtained a set of these ALCO PA / PB-1 Diesels from Con-Cor to run a nine car passenger train. Over all I am satisfied with the look of them, but how they run leaves me with some questions. The A unit is powered and the B unit is not. The A unit seems like it is jerky or goes fast then dies down even though the throttle at the power pack remains constant. It seems like it is lunging around the track and it causes a yo-yo effect through out the passenger train. Also, it seems as if the locomotive does not have a whole lot of power or speed at full throttle. Any ideas of what this could be and how to potentially fix it? I have cleaned the engine wheels and cleaned the track. Also the B unit and some of the passenger cars seem to derail or come uncoupled quite frequently either due to the yo-yo effect of the A unit or the B unit not having enough weight. Any recommendations on how to add more weight to the B unit and how much should I add? Also how can I prevent the A unit from being so jerky? This is my first experience with Con-Cor locomotives so I am not sure if this is just the way it is, or I have something wrong that can be fixed. Appreciate the feed back. Mr X
Mr. X, These were the standard for diesels when they were introduced in the late 60s. Adding weight to the B unit is simple--remove the shell and put about 21 grams (3 A-line 7 gram weights) on the floor, then remount the shell. Jerky operation is another matter. These engines were grinders compared to some of today's locos--strong pullers but noisy. Did you buy it new? If used, a thorough cleaning might be needed.
Pete, Sorry, I should have said whether they are new or used. Santa Clause ordered them directly from Con-Cor and I got them for Christmas just a month ago. The engines have less than an hours use plus or minus. The passenger cars came with rapido style couplers so I did order new trucks and couplers from MT to do the conversion on the cars. The locomotives already had MT couplers on them. I personally thought the A unit still needed to be broken in, but it just does not seem to be improving at this point or I have another issue all together. Fortunately, noise does not seem to be an issue or I have been exposed to a lot loader. Mr X
I still have a few of those old engines. I used to run the heck out of them before I replaced them in my roster with Kato PAs. One thing I found that helped with electrical pickup was Atlas Conduct-a-lube in all the wheel bearings and between the metal truck frames and the bottom chassis frames. They usually ran pretty smooth after that. Each wheel has a metal stub axle that rides in a notch in the metal truck frame. Not exactly low friction but they work. The trucks should be taken apart and cleaned periodically to get rid of any lint and other gunk that can accumulate there.
Hmmm.... NOT the early (1970's-1980's) Kato drive PA I'm guessing. The later releases 1990+ may have used a different mechanism; or, a mechanism similar to Kato' but made in China. I don't have a way to compare the different chassis... I only have the 1970-1980's version done by Kato. The Kato built units are still pretty good runners even 20+ years after manufacture. ConCor had visions of making the PA with built-in sound/DCC a few years ago and may have abandoned that plan since PCM has them on the drawing board.
I do believe that these were made in China. The front truck is stamped Con-cor and made in China. I tried to ask Santa for the Kato PA1 but I could not find it in the Erie Lackawanna road name any more. I just tried something else and I know it is comparing apples and oranges but it does narrow it down that it is not a track or an electrical problem. I took the Con-Cor engines off the layout and replaced them with one Kato F7 A unit and the passneger cars pulled just fine and there was no jerking and lunging. There was one derailment early on but this was due to a MT coupler being slightly out of wack. I made the adjustment to it and the train ran just fine. Full speed bullet train style for about 15 - 20 laps. So I guess it is back the engines being the issue. By the way what is '3 A-line 7 gram weights' I realize that they are 7 gram weights but where do you get them? Is 'A-Line' the manufacturer? Mr X
A-Line is a manufacturer This is a link to a vendor who had them, others may also have them, but couldn't find them on their website. http://www.nscalesupply.com/ALI/ALI.html
An excellent replacment is Kato's PA's and PB's, all powered, smooth, and quiet. I have two Con Cor, PA's, AA, Santa Fe Red and Silver Warbonnets. As Pete said they are grinders. They look good pulling my El Capitain. Eventually replacements will be ordered from Kato and they will take the dead line waiting the vengeful torch. Grin! Back when these were delivered by Con Cor my dad and I saw them as well...fillins... until we could get the quality we were looking for. The demand most of us N Scalers voiced was give us quality. It wasn't until Kato's, now famous, drives/chassis's started showing up on Atlas diesels that our hopes for better things took a turn from wishful thinking to reality. That's when my interest and involvement in N scale took a turn and my HO stuff was boxed up and put in storage. Till later.
It may be too late for Santa to make another visit but there are two EL PA1's currently on eBay. One is a buy-it-now for $67. You can use your Con-Cor B unit. Edit: The other is a straight auction starting at $99. Phew! Ben
I think I skipped a decade on the original Con-Cor PAs. I bought mine in the late 70s, not 60s. These were made by Kato. I bought two powered A's and a dummy B. The dummy B was always a problem until I added weight. Then I disemboweled the B for the axles and wheels for a centipede auxiliary tender with power pickup. A-Line is a brand name. I got mine at a local hobby shop.
I also have the first generation Con-Cor PA1 for the E-L. The paint work/number location is wrong, but it was my best runner back in the day. I now have the Life-Like PA1 and it is a superior loco in every respect. I don't have a Kato to compare with, but the L-L is a GREAT running and looking engine. It's been hauling my 5 Con-Cor smooth sides with no problems for literally hours on our N-Trak setup at shows. A powered A-A or A-B combination should be able to pull your 9 cars with no problem.
Pete and all tuned in, You are so right about the timeline. I bought the ConCor PA's sometime in the early 80's. Never did note that they were built by Kato. This would have to be a early Kato production before improvements were made to their drive. Gorgeous locomotives just lousy performers.
Au contraire, the Kato built PA's from the 1970's were excellent running models, at least compared to anything else available at the time. Split frame, actually a 3 piece frame, the bottom 2 pieces split the top one piece and insulated from the two bottoms. Mine ran smoothly for years without any problems, and that was on Atlas track and switches. Finally was unable to obtain brushes and retired it. Still have it. Maybe someday I'll see if any other brushes will fit. Ben
Hey, The EL PA's are always on eBay. I've paid between $25-60.00 for 1. If your set is D&H,I highly recomend the new Kato release.
All: Well, Santa was sitting next to me earlier as I was reading this thread. I said, "Look some one is recommending that Santa bring me another one which is Kato" ... well my wife fell off her seat laughing. :teeth: Any way I guess it is February... Yes, I realize that Kato makes the best engines out there - in my humble opinion. But, is there any way of making this particular engine not so slugish and jerky? The Con-Cor PA1 was actually replacing a Life Like PA1 that I did not overly care for. (No offense to Life Like) I believe Russell Straw mentioned "Atlas Conduct-a-lube" in all wheel bearings. I assume this is made by Atlas? How much of it do I need to put in each joint/bearing point? Is it similiar to 3-1 oil or is it even a liquid? Or at least the application of it goes? Just a drop goes a long way. Russell, if you could provide me with a little bit more explanation on all the points which you applied it and the techniques that you used, etc. It would be most appreciated. Mr X P.S. Technically I did get these for free!
The key clue here is that these came from C-C with MT couplers. These are the recent issue with a totally new power chassis. They are also phantomware. One or two gentlemen on other forums managed to get hold of a couple of copies and gave them rave reviews. I had my F-not-so-LHS order some for me so that I could put my P&LEs on the new chassis (the old shells will fit the new chassis\ or so C-C claims)\ but they never showed up. I have seen these in American Freedom Train and Erie\ but the guy who had the Eries wanted too much money and the Freedom Train has white trucks; white is difficult to mask. I would send them back to C-C. LL may have Eries or E-Ls. The LL plastic frame PAs are still out there and are good runners. They will also pull every piece of rolling stock that you own up a fifty per-cent grade on an eleven inch radius curve (the PAs have six axle trucks which give problems on nine and three-quarter curves). Then there are the Katos.
Some cleaning & relubing ought to help the ConCor PA's. AFAIK they use the same design. There may be an issue with assemble quality. AFAIK they may be "new" but you don't know how long they may have been sitting on the shelf in AZ. You may find some detail items to add to make the ConCor look more like the LL or Kato units. 3 in 1 oil is a material that eats plastic, so is not good for model use. You only need a tiny drop of Conduct a lube or any other model lube. Be sure it is made by a hobby co. There are several good lines of lubes available.
