I was using MS ‘Live Search Maps’ to look around Sacramento California for a work related search (no, really!). Of course whenever I see a rail line I just have to investigate it further. I eventually found an old yard facility just north of the I Street Bridge and just east of I5. When I shifted to ‘Birds Eye View’, it clearly shows (in the mix of old cars, etc.) what appears to a pair of old rusting Santa Fe 4-8-4 Northerns in the open. In zoom mode you can almost make out the numbers on the tenders. Is anyone familiar with this facility? Are these indeed Northerns? Does anyone know the story behind them?
Last I heard the Sacramento Railroad Museum did have two ATSF 4-8-4's (Correction: 1@ 4-8-4 Northern and 1@ 2-10-4 Texas type)...rusting away in the yard. Sadly, Schwarzee and other previous gov's of CA cut the museum budget back drastically. They aren't interested in funding museums.
Yes, the locations on both links (Google) are correct. I can see the locos on the satellite image, but I was using MS Search Maps that has much clearer photos. I can't seem to generate a direct link for you to follow, but if you goto: Live Local Search Zoom into the same location in Sacramento, then press 'Birds Eye', then zoom in, the photo is clearer. You can even change compass views and see them from each direction.
I live in Sacramento and work downtown. It shouldn't be too hard to get over there and find out if the locos are still there. Last I'd heard, most of that equipment had been moved elsewhere as the city get's ready to buy and redevelop the former rail yards. I'll see what I can do about getting some pics out there too.
THANKS! It would be interesting to see if they are still there. No telling how old the photos are on these online map services. It also looks like there is a lot of other old equipment sitting around too. The Northerns are what stood out to me. So this is a museum storage yard?
I'm not 100% on that, but if you go south from there along the river and across the freeway you'll see a turntable and a large building. That's the California Stat Railroad Museum, and the tracks connect, so it would be convienient. I just spent the day Saturday down there riding the Santa Train and since the price was right, we did the museum (again). We're down there at the museum about once every 3 or so months.
It's a great museum with truely excellent interactive exhibits. Unfortunately, like most museums they simply don't have the space or funding they would need to take care of the amount of equipment in their charge. Nobody else has the space either. It kinda sucks, because even the cheapest of prefab structures would be all it needed. Somebody should build something out in the middle of the mojave to store this stuff the same way the Mojave Airport stores old Airplanes. Lot's of cheap land.
This might help, one Northern listed in their Collection, one 2-10-4 [FONT=arial,verdana]Steam Locomotives[/FONT] [FONT=arial,verdana] Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe No. 5 Little Buttercup Baldwin 1899 0-4-0 Ex-0-4-0T; operated 1949 at Chicago R.R. Fair. Gift 3/1986 of AT&SF Ry. Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe No. 1010 Baldwin 1901 2-6-2 Pulled 1905 Death Valley Scotty Special. Last operated 2/1955; gift 10/1984 of AT&SF Ry. Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe No. 2925 Baldwin 1944 4-8-4 Last operated 7/1956 in NM; gift 3/1986 of AT&SF Ry. Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe No. 5021 Baldwin 1944 2-10-4 Last operated 8/1957 in NM; gift 3/1986 of AT&SF Ry. Central Pacific No. 1 Gov. Stanford R. Norris 1862&n 4sp;-4-0 Last operated 1/1895; loaned by Leland Stanford Junior University. Restored by CSRM to 3/1899 appearance. Granite Rock No. 10 Porter 1942 0-6-0ST Ex- U.S. Army No. 5001. Gift 9/95 of Granite Rock Company; restored 1997 by GR and CSRM. Operable; oil burner. Kiso Forest Ry. No. 6 (36" gauge) Baldwin 1929 0-4-2T Originally 30" gauge, Kiso Forest No. 17, No. 9. Loaned by Henry Sorensen. Operable Mattole Lumber Co. No. 1 (36" gauge) Vulcan 1908 0-4-2T Loaned by Henry Sorensen. Operable Nevada Short Line No. 1 (36" gauge) Baldwin 1879 2-6-0 Last operated 10/1940; gift 8/1969 of R&LHS, Pacific Coast Chapter. Restored by CSRM to 1920 appearance. North Pacific Coast No. 12 Sonoma (36" gauge) Baldwin 1876 4-4-0 Last operated 10/1940; gift 4/1978 of John M. Hiskey Family. Restored by CSRM to 1876 appearance. Northwestern Pacific No. 112 ALCO 1908 4-6-0 Last operated 5/1952; gift 8/1969 of R&LHS, Pacific Coast Chapter. Sole surviving NWP steam locomotive. Overfair Railway No. 1915 (19" gauge) MacDermot 1915 4-6-2 Gift 8/1989 of Albert B. Smith to CSRMF; reconstructed by Sacramento Valley Live Steamers. Never operational. Southern Pacific No. 1 C. P. Huntington Cooke 1863 4-2-4RT Ex-Central Pacific No. 3. Last operated 5/1939 at LAUPT. Gift 9/1964 of SP; restored by CSRM to 11/1914 appearance. Southern Pacific No. 1771 Baldwin 1902 2-6-0 Retired 12/1957; gift 3/1985 of City of Placerville. Disassembled. Southern Pacific No. 4294 Baldwin 1944 4-8-8-2 Retired 3/1956; gift 10/1977 of City of Sacramento. Restored by CSRM to 1950s in-service appearance. Sole surviving SP cab-forward. Stockton Terminal & Eastern No. 3 Baldwin 1922 2-6-2 Gift 3/1988 of Stockton Terminal & Eastern R.R. U.S. Army No. 5014 Porter 1942 0-6-0ST Purchased 4/1995 by CSRMF from Don Richardson, Tombstone Junction, KY for parts. Union Pacific No. 4466 Lima 1920 0-6-0 Gift 6/1978 of R&LHS, Pacific Coast Chapter; restored 1984 by CSRM. Operable; coal burner. Virginia & Truckee No. 12 Genoa Baldwin 1873 4-4-0 Gift 8/1969 of R&LHS, Pacific Coast Chapter; last operated 5/1979. Restored by CSRM to 4/1902 appearance. Virginia & Truckee No. 13 Empire Baldwin 1873 2-6-0 Last operated 1931 in NV; gift 8/1969 of R&LHS, Pacific Coast Chapter. Restored by CSRM to 1873 appearance. Virginia & Truckee No. 21 J. W. Bowker Baldwin 1875 2-4-0 Last operated 6/1953 in San Francisco; gift 8/1969 of R&LHS, Pacific Coast Chapter. [/FONT]
What you are seeing are ATSF 4-8-4 No. 2925 and ATSF 2-10-4 No. 5021. These two locomotives were completely rebuilt by ATSF in the '50's and stored serviceable in (I think) Albuquerque, NM, somewhere in NM anyway. When the facility they were in was torn down, or some other disaster was threatening, they donated the two locomotives to the California State RR Museum in Sacramento. I think some diesels were also included. As someone else has stated, there wasn't room to display them, so they were hidden out in the old SP yards and were vandalized. :tb-mad: The two locomotives have created a firestorm of criticism and support on other railfan forums. Many, including me, have given up their memberships with the CSRM because of their neglect of the locos. Recently, a very trusted steam restorer has informed me that we are not looking at rust, but a thoughfully applied primer coat of paint on the two engines, and in fact, they are in very good shape. Unfortunately, there are no funds available to CSRM to restore them, again. To complicate matters, CSRM has always intended to use two of the big ex-SP buildings for expansion of the museum and indoor storage for some of these great engines. A big development is going on in downtown Sacramento which threatens the museum's claim to the buildings. Infighting is going on among developers, museum, state entities. It's a mess. No telling how it will come out. :tb-mad: Sorry to go on and on. It's a situation close to my heart, which is steam powered. :tb-biggrin:
I know there's a big push to have some sort of museum at Fullerton Depot, perhaps these can be a part of it. It always amazes me how disjointed These Museum projects can be. Orange Empire is building some huge new buildings to cover their open air pieces and to do better restoration work. The problem here seems to be location more then desire. We've argued about the issues with the CSRM on this very site and I've always defended them, mainly because their exhibits are better then any I've seen anywhere in the country. There charter is education, not storage. Maintaining the collection is of vital importance, but when funds are limited, better to add meaning to what you have out then to have no meaning. Still, the fact that they're in primer is a bit of vindication. Seems that the criticzm you leveled at them was either unfounded or taken to heart. In either case, it sounds like money is the root of the issue still. I reiterate what I said in my previous post. Put up a prefab stucture somewhere in the mojave. Heck, have other facilities chip in as a place to store work in progress. Climate's perfect, land is undesirable, It's a hot railspot anyway. Support the fullerton project, support other state preservation projects. etc etc etc.
It has been years, actually eons, since I have been to CSRM. Maybe they have something set up maybe not, but seems like it would make a heck of a lot of sense to move at least one of the engines closer to the museum and set up a restoration donation "farebox." Undoubtably there are thousands of visitors and hundreds of railfans that visit the museum and do not even know those steamers are even there. Between those donations, volunteer group like the one in New Mexico, and the museum's fund raising capabilities, I would bet over a number of years the money could be raised and the work could get done. If I walked by 2925 in primer and there was a box saying help us restore this baby to steam, I'd drop $10-20 in a second. Brad
That MS Birdseye view option is pretty awesome. As you say, you can almost read the numbers on the tenders. Now, if you look at the buildings just south of the two steamers and turntable, you will see the transfer table which was completely rebuilt and restored by the CSRM. Seeing where it is, I ask "why?" If the building which it is serving is one of the two which the CSRM may not even get out of all this political maneuvering, wouldn't the money involved in that restoration have been better spent on the ATSF locos? Inquiring minds..........:tb-confused:
Is the transfer table work ongoing right now? or is it done? Did they know when they did the work what the status of the land would be? Doesn't a transfer table also have historical significance? Sorry fitz, I'm not trying to poo poo on your concerns and issues, I'm just wondering, hoping there's a bigger picture here. The work they have done is to me so outstanding that I want to give them some slack. It was so much more meaningful then say portola which has tons of equipment, but very little context. (not that I didn't love portola.)
Very interesting information so far. I did see the roundtable further south, but figured it was another relic on an abandoned line. Good to hear it's part of a museum. Hopefully the steamers can be eventually restored. Straying from the topic a bit: Locally in the metro-west Boston area we have an old (and still active) service/boneyard of sorts. It used to be a major B&M service facility. Now it's HQ of the recently re-named 'Pan Am Railways' (formerly Gulford). If you utilize the same MS Live Local search and look up Billerica, MA (off Iron Horse Drive), you will see what's left of this facility in birds eye view. Not much loco & rolling stock equipment can be seen, but if you look close you can see a couple canabilized GP units. For many years this was the place where locos went to die and get chopped up. Here's a railfan picture of one those units you see from the air (this one was finally moved away this year): http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?2000122621355322057.jpg Other pictures of the old strutures. It must have been an impressive facility in its day: http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?2007060914004924952.jpg http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?2007060913565324868.jpg
Bruce, that's sad that all of that stuff was lost. Yoho, no need to be sorry. The transfer table was completed a few years ago. When CSRM wildly advertised that fact, I just naively assumed that they would actually USE it and store the ATSF and other locomotives in the building that it served. Don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed two railfairs there at CSRM but I really think they have gone "off the track," pun intended.
As promised: We went down to Old Sacramento today to try and find a way behind the shop buildings this post started with. It took some exploring, and a good deal of walking, but we found a spot with no chain-link fence between us and the yard. It looks to me like 2925 is in pretty good condition, and both it and 5021 do appear to be in primer (as previously reported). 5021 appears to have some rust on the back of the tender. We'll try again to get some better pics in a few weeks with the other camera (that has a longer zoom), and I'll post those when I get them.
