Greetings Fellows, I have long been interested in the history of railroads in South Texas as well as promoting contemporary Rail issues in the same context. My brother Anthony recently made a trip to Houston and treked along this route (namely El Campo, Wharton) and was shocked to see the activity. He called me with the news. I then found this forum. I have read through this post with glee and wonderment, however, I am a bit behind. I do not with to spur the ire of some by going over well-trodden soil, however, I have a few questions? 1) Will the construction end at Victoria? 2) What is the main motivation for rebuilding this line? 3) Does this motivation deal with alternate routes to Laredo or the Rio Grande Valley? 4) If so, why not extend the line Beeville, Mathis and Alice, Texas where it can link up to the Tex-Mex? 5) Heck...why not continue the line down the old Falfurrias Branch of the SA&AP to the Valley and relieve the congestion on the UP line through Kingsville? As you can see, I have an interest, if not an agenda, to see rails in my area. Anyone know this or care to sepcuate. Contray positions welcomed. Thanks, Carrales
Welcome Carrales. Going way back to the Southern Pacific/Union Pacific merger, part of the approval for the deal was that Kansas City Southern would have track rights over the UP to get to Corpus Christi and hook up with the Texas Mexican Railroad which KCS has a controlling interest in. KCS has since gained control of the Mexican railroad TFM which connects to the Tex Mex. The old line from Rosenberg to Victoria was largely abandoned by the UP before they sold the right of way to the KCS. From the time of the merger until present the KCS has traveled on the UP from the Beaumont, Texas area west to Flatonia, Texas where it turns south on the old San Antonio & Aransas Pass trackage that UP owns. From there it heads down to Victoria and then over to Corpus Christi all on UP tracks before crossing over to the Tex Mex (its home rails). The new tracks will only run between Rosenberg and Victoria where the KCS will again run on UP to get to Corpus. However this will cut many miles of running on the UP where they are up against a lot of Sunset Route traffic. KCS also is building a large intermodal facility along their new route to sort and stage loads for different trains. At this time there are no plans to build more of their own tracks beyond Victoria.
Beyond Victoria From Victoria, UP still uses part of the line to serve the power plant near Fannin. It has been many years since I last traveled along the line west of Victoria, but I can tell from Google Earth that there are no tracks in place beyond the power plant spur at Fannin. I am sure that if KCS wanted to replace the line all the way to Alice, this portion would be retained by UP. Does anyone know who much trackage east from Victoria that UP plans to retain ownership of?
UP still uses the old MoPac line from Bloomington, just south of Victoria, back east to Algoa just south of Houston. The continuation of that same MoPac line west of Bloomington is what KCS now uses to get to Corpus Christi. The KCS owns all the old SP right of way into Victoria where the old yard was. However it is doubted that the old yard will be restored in any way due to all the grade crossings. They would not want to hold trains there waiting to get on the UP tracks because of all the blocked crossings. They will probably try to put in a siding farther out of town to the east to hold trains where there are no crossings to avoid riling up the public. They would like to put a bypass around Victoria but the locals want top dollar for an right of way purchases and so far it seems the railroad can not justify that.
STB Finance Docket No. 33914 TEXAS MEXICAN RAILWAY COMPANY —PURCHASE EXEMPTION— UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD COMPANY Decided: December 8, 2000 By petition filed on August 11, 2000, and supplemented on October 3, 2000, Texas Mexican Railway Company (Tex Mex or petitioner) seeks an exemption under 49 U.S.C. 10502 from the prior approval requirements of 49 U.S.C. 11323-25, to acquire from Union Pacific Railroad Company (UP) and to operate the Rosenberg Line (the Line). The Line is an 84.5-mile line of railroad between milepost 87.0 near Victoria and milepost 2.5 near Rosenberg, in Jackson, Victoria, Wharton, and Fort Bend Counties, TX. Tex Mex requests that the exemption include its acquisition from UP of approximately 6.3 miles of overhead trackage rights at both ends of the Rosenberg Line, between milepost 0.0 and milepost 2.5 and between milepost 87.0 and milepost 90.8.1 Additionally, Tex Mex requests permission to move the traffic that will originate or terminate on the Rosenberg Line pursuant to the overhead trackage rights acquired in the 1996 decision that approved the merger of UP and Southern Pacific Transportation Company (SP). See Union Pacific/Southern Pacific Merger, 1 S.T.B. 233 (1996) (UP/SP), aff’d sub nom. Western Coal Traffic League v. STB, 169 F.3d 775 (D.C. Cir. 1999). beagle
Thank you, everyone, for this information. I will wacth this post as well as the construction efforts on the Rosenberg Line. So, for speculation purposes, is it an even viable hope in some unfolding of the future to expect that the KCS (or UP) would ever explore a rebuilding of the line to Mathis, if not Alive, Texas? Would that be of any benefit to KCS? A direct line sort of speak to the old TEX MEX Corpus Christi to Laredo Route. Be advised that these are merely pipedreams on my part.
It all depends on who owns the right of way. If a railroad still owns it there may be a possibility, especially if there was a lot of local traffic to be generated. If ownership has transfered to adjacent land owners like usually happens, then I would say it is highly unlikely. If NAFTA traffic picks up to an extent that capacity on the existing lines is overwhelmed, I believe the railroads would find it easier to double track the existing right of ways.
It depends upon how they took it out of service. What year was that line segment removed? If late enough, it might have come under Rails-To-Trails regulations. Worst case scenario, and if traffic demands existed, they could get into a noisy, expensive eminent domain fight. Boxcab E50
Beyond Victoria Just in looking at the ROW on Google Earth west of Victoria I can see that KCS might have a NIMBY fight on its hands, especially around Goliad. With little capacity concerns on UP's line south of Victoria, rebuilding between Victoria and Alice appears unlikely at this time.
Thank you for your honest reply. I depend on such candor to curb the flow of "wishful thinking" that clouds my look at South Texas Railroading. You see, some of my earliest memories are of my Grandmother taking me to see trains passing in Premont (my home), which is a bit south on the old SAAP line. Any rebuit trackage sparks a good deal of nostalgia.
Rail still ends in Kendleton, but the bridge over the San Bernard is ready just west of town. Most activity is on the east side of Kendleton where they are working on the intermodal yard. Lots of earth moving and tracks going in. They were tamping and leveling rail and ballast between UP tracks and Spur 10 outside Rosenberg. Looks like a finished railroad there.
Not very wide. I would not want to be standing on it if a train was going by at 50 MPH. However there is probably enough room for crew members to walk along to inspect a stopped train.
Any reason I'm seeing a KCS trains northbound on the UP's Austin Sub lately? Problems on the Sunset Route?
FriscoBob posted this on another thread in this forum earlier today, but the part about the Rosenberg/Victoria line probably bears repeating in this thread. Just to add it to the info already presented. Information from Kansas City Southern BB&T Transportation Conference Report: 1. Plan to complete rebuilding of ex S.P. line from Rosenberg to Victoria and put into operation by late 2008 or early 2009 a. 84.5 miles long (will be significantly shorter than route thru Flatonia) b. Will eliminate routing KCS trains thru Flatonia c. 89 public crossings & 66 private crossings d. 136 lb rail e. 223,000 concrete ties f. 491,000 tons of ballast g. 23 timber bridges replaced by culverts h. 15 open deck timber bridges being repaired i. 32 new open deck ballast bridges built j. Reconstruct Colorado & Lavaca River bridges Thanks to Bob for initially posting this info.
