It's not here, so apparently it was removed before the RR pulled out: Looking east of the east portal--the rails used to make a loop around this wide bowl: A tighter shot--in the center of the shot is a bare cut, which leads to Lacey Tunnel 3, near MP 178:
At that, folks, I am spent! The area from Tunnel 3 east, is private land by another landowner... More coverage from Tunnel 3 east is coming soon...
I don't know what would have been hauled out of there. Good question. Maybe Dano would know? If I had more timetables, I could possibly narrow down the time frame for it's last use. Water would likely have situated near were a grade would have caused steam engines to use more than usual. Phone boxes were usually located near some physical place. Near a siding switch. In a depot. Etc. Boxcab E50
The estimated 1.5% grade out of the coulee (the driveable part to Mckinnor Rd) might have required a water plug.. The serpentine route thru the coulee seems rather mild, if not as level as possible. The real grade is off Red Coulee Trestle, westbound. The eastbound grade out of the area is likely light. MILW was noted for a well-engineered mainline, this would seem to be no exception, except for the problematic substrate on which they built.
In those days, they built first, and worried later. Getting their rails into a market sector was the key. We can only wonder, "what if," in thinking about this line ever reaching Canada. How would that have effected the revenues? Would it still exist today? Betcha it would! Boxcab E50
I have often heard it debated that IF MILW could have held on for another 5 years, they could have had all the intermodal traffic out of Seattle-Tacoma and possibly brough themselves out of BK. But obviouslly the corp. officers didn't want the RR anyways. So it is hard to say if it would have happened anyways.
I can follow your logic as well Ryan. However, a lot of people did not know the Milw did handle a good amount of container and trailer trains. I have a good amount of pictures a local photographer has given me to use in my modeling. He has a bunch of photos documenting this kind of freight over the mainline heading east from the Puget Sound. There is one set of photos that show a milw container/trailer unit train. This i found unusual because the milw always seemed to have a mix of freight cars. I would say that if the milw could have held on a little longer, they might have had a chance. However, most of the container and trailer freight was carried by TOFC's. The milw never bought into Gunderson or any double stack train equipment. So it is possible the argument could have been made that they may of not had the money to invest in the newer freight cars...maybe. But then again, had they been able to stick around to generate even more income off the soon to come intermodal market, they would be able to buy the newer cars. However, the money issue seems to be somewhat disfigured due to bad bookkeeping and management. Hard to say hard to say... take a look at this: www.trainweb.org/milwaukee/article.html its a good read! I created some fantasy milw twinstacks for myself!!! hahaha Although my RR layout is being built based on the time towards the end of the milw days in Wa, I like to believe the layout is timeless. This allows me to have twinstacks and such.
Yes the Milw did have unit container trains. I believe it was known as the Thunderhawk. I think that Gunderson was not around yet when Milw pulled out of the west. I do know that the Milw had 70% of the container traffic out of Sea-Tac., and not to mention the auto facility they built in Kent. It just amazes me that they failed.
I know it is amazing, read that article I linked to. You'll see a bunch of odd business decisions made by milw management. Ryan, soon Ken will chime in and he'll set everything straight. He sometimes is very touchy about the subject and wants to be sure history is told accurately. he'll be here for the betterness of the subject, haha.
Actually, my survival comments were directed to the Northern Montana Division. However- Yes. It is true. The Milw had a very high percentage of the Puget Sound container traffic. Few people know they had a sales office in Japan, which helped secure a lot of this traffic. Their yard location in Tacoma gave them a great advantage. And direct tie to TMBL. The auto facility in Kent (West Siding), was a joint Milw/UP operation. 50/50. Still, it provided a good dollar amount to their bottom line. They did handle TOFC traffic before containers. That was the XL Special (Train 261), and Thunderhawk (Train 262.) They first bought the U25B engines for this. Then the GP30s. This is when the 261/262 numbers were introduced. Replacing their former hot trains 263/264. This was before COFC. The names were slowly dropped after a few years. Boxcab E50
A sad read indeed. I have read and reread that article, and it shocks me how blatantly MILW managers destroyed the company... If they had revamped electrification, and juiced-up the Gap; thanks to the 70's fuel crisis, the MILW could have survived today. One of the best-engineered mains in the PNW, the electrified zone and the lack of significant (low-profit, money-draining--A la Lines East) branches on Lines West made the MILW a great bridge-traffic hauler. Reminds me of the Rio Grande.... Long haul makes good money. I have really begun to research and learn the MILW, and it amazes me how far ahead of their competition they were on many fronts. The intermodal trains MILW ran really shocked me. I had no idea they were beating BN into the ground with premium service. The corruption in Chicago tossed it all down the drain..
Ken - haha I knew you'd save the day! Hemi - you said it...if only the proper management had been in place. Since i was young i favored the BN due to being a kid and liking the color green. So it grew on me. But since reading about the milw beginning in late 2004 i have become more fascinated with it then the bn. The whole story is great and i love hearing and discussing it. My shelf of locomotives is slowly but surely become more orange/black. So maybe it's possible that the color orange has grown on me! (i need an orange simley face ken!!!)
Yup. He's "SuperMilwFan!" Almost able to get out of his chair. Faster than a speeding slug. Able to leap a Hostess Twinkie in a single bound. More powerful than a.... :rolleyes2: :rolleyes2: :rolleyes2: :rolleyes2: Boxcab E50
Hemi- One of the biggest fallacies about Lines West, is the "no revenue on line" BS. If you study the numbers, you'll see that they actually did have business. Feeders such as the NMD really helped a lot. It could have certainly been more. But at some west end terminals, they truly had a very good cash flow. As you've noted, it's the long haul (bridge) freight revenues which bring in dollars! And they had a loooooooong haul. It's gone. It'll never be back. But we can make certain the BS is laid to rest. What once was is well remembered. And history is properly recorded. Boxcab E50
I don't think I was trying to make that point, Ken, but the MILW seemed intentionally dodge population centers, for a more economical line. That, combined with fewer branches on LW than LE, likely made long haul even more important. LW did have some valuable feeder branches, but my guess, the bulk of the revenues were made via long haul. Am I in the ballpark?
Not really belonging in this section, but belonging in the tour: The only piece of the ROW seen from any public highway is Red Coulee trestle, as seen from 4-6 miles away, from MT-228; it is only seen for a brief moment from the hiway, and with a speed limit of 70MPH, it comes and goes quick! I made a stereotypical railfan maneuver to grab this shot, and had to stand in the bed of the truck, with max telephoto to get this rather grainy view:
There was a lot going on, when the Milw built west. As they were buying their own right of way, going where they could most afford it was a necessity. They had to dodge through lands owned by other interests. Acquire from other RR interests, etc. They went through virgin lands, hoping to cultivate growth that would feed their lines, etc. Had to fight problems caused by at least one other RR. Originally, plans were that revenues would come from many and varied sources. Some happened. Some came and went. Some never came to be. :sad: Boxcab E50
Back to the tour! Amphitheatre Tunnel 4's east portal from around the bowl east of Tunnel 4: A little further east, and wide, gives this shot: Looking west, near MP 178: Telltale guarding Lacey Tunnel 3 standing watch:
Telltale guarding Tunnel 3 is also MP 178: Lacey Tunnel 3 west portal: Refuge inside Tunnel 3, showing interior lining detail: Lacey Tunnel 3 east portal:
