I suppose I should consider myself lucky in that, here in Calgary, out of 9 shops that stock railroad stuff, 4 stock z scale, and one of those caters strickly to European Z scalers. Not a lot of it mind you, but enough for anyone to get started in it. The problem is, I compare prices at these shops with those on the various internet sites like Z scale Monster trains or Ebay. It is far cheaper for me to buy from those sites then it is to buy from the shops or have them order it for me. Even with the exchange rate and customs duties, I can get an SD75 from AZL for about 30 dollars less then I can at any of the shops here in town and that's with the exchange and customs duties if any. Add to that, the selection of available equipment and such is far more extensive then any of the shops have on hand. The other thing too is mark up, I know for a fact that 1 of these shops triples the price of all their z scale stock just because they are the only one in that quadrant of the city. That's just plain greedy. I don't go there. It is a natural thing for shops to mark up the wholesale price of z scale stuff to cover their shipping and customs duties and still make a reasonable profit on it. I have often thought that I would like a z scale supply place right out of my home. All I would stock would be z scale engines, cars and other equipment, and of course common to all scales things like controllers, etc. But again it all comes down to how many z scalers are there in this city. I only know of 4 including myself. That in itself would not make having such a home based business worth while. Too bad too since it was such a good idea.
I choose to buy my MTL products through my LHS. I know it costs me a little more than what I pay at a show, but I want to have a hobby shop to go to. There have been a lot of times I needed some CA, styrene, and/or scenic material and my LHS has been there when I needed that 'one' item to keep the project moving. It also makes for a nice social place to talk trains. Recently, my LHS came across some preowned Z. He passed it my way for free. One loco, 2 cabeese, and 7 cars. Really made my day. I hope the pic posts. bh
so funny you bring this topic up. the hobby shop by my does not carry Z and they say they can order it being a waltzers supplier, but your totally right. Because I drive an hour away to the hobby shop that does stock Z because I can see it and touch it, and buy it knowing il get pleasure out of the purchase as soon as im home. The only problem is the hobby shop I go to carries only 4-5 micro trains engines at a time, and they only restock newer models when the older models sell. I've bought starting in summer, the UP sd-402, went back a week later they restocked the next release which was a boston and maine gp9 i believe. So i bought that, then they restocked the next release which was the great northern gp-9 in orange and green or w.e it is. I didn't buy it and since that release no one else has bought it so they have not restocked any of the newer engines. It's kind of said that within 6 months no one bought the Great northern so it hinders me getting to see the newer engines in person and make an impulse buy, due to me seeing it run and the engine growing on me. Its almost like if I want the fun in seeing a new engine I need to buy that great northern! I didn't instead I bought 2 older engines that they had sitting there for god knows how long, Burlington northern Green black sd-40-2 (which ran so good, and now doesn't run at all really due to me setting up track on my dirty hard wood floor my niece and it attracted a whole lot of gunk and I don't know how to clean them and repair them and then I bought the Conrail sd-40-2 which is my most reliable engine or was until the motor on that one got hair or something caught in it and I have yet to clean it, not knowing how. But anyway the hobby shop workers tell me people come in here and there to buy Z products but all they buy is flex track! they don't buy structures or engines, just flex track, so when I need it it's sold out! I think the issue is that the people who come in and buy the flex track don't buy the engines because they know they can get them cheaper online because the hobby shop charges retail price 195 for sd 40-2 and so on. They have 3 engines from MT and refuse to order new ones until someone buys the ones there, yet thel stock every N scale engine known to man rain sleet or snow, no buyers, 100 buyers. Which is really upsetting. Every time I go to hobby shop im hoping theres a new Z engine, but its always the same. The great northern geepee and the Northfork southern sd-40, its such a shame that everyone in the store looks at Z as being what its known for small! small in the industry and not enough buyers. THATS BECAUSE EVERYONE BUYS THERE STUFF ONLINE! but let me tell you, there is nothing more exciting then impulse buying and getting to touch, see and run the engine your going to buy!, don't get me wrong I love opening up my Z packages from MONSTERZ (have a big order coming monday ) but actually physically seeing that engine in the store that you would never order, but seeing it in person makes it grow on you is really fun and really makes me open up to new roadnames that I would never think about ordering. PS I mean come one I was so waiting for that hobby shop to get the santa fe sd-40 when it released! BUT NOPE STILL THE GREAT NORTHERN SITS BEHIND THE GLASS DISPLAY CASE! "Z may be small, but whats small, is big in heart"
Since the time my LHS simply "dropped" a 30-car order in the trash basket, I had been deciding to purchase all my stuff online.:tb-wacky: Dom
I think a lot of manufacturers have not helped the LHS, in their policies of selling. I have worked at several in the area over many years and long gone is the mark-up that they need to stay in business. Then you companies like Marklin who were a leader in the scale at one time and now, well... Sorry Joe, but I see MTL as not taking a larger role in Z, with the addition of their new policy of selling direct to the public I think the LHS will not be buying as much which will further hurt Z, and MTL(for Z). I think the old saying still holds true in this economy, if you build it the die-hards will come out and buy. AS for AZL, my hat is off I think they have become the leader in selling Z. I would like to see more older equipment, but I am glad they are putting out new items quite frequently. Gone are the days in which a hobby shop could afford to stock all items made, and the companies would make engines or cars not on short runs, so a year from now I could afford the challenger I can't now. I am still glad their are companies out there like MTL, AZL, Uncle Will, Sea Rails (and many others) that are willing to put up the money that is needed to keep the scale going, but I will miss the day when I can not go to my local hobby shop to chat with fellow z scalers and see there work. JD
Business has really picked up for us in the last 6 months. I think taking Z scale "on the road" to local shows to expose people to Z scale has really helped. Even though we are considered an "E-tailer" we always welcome folks to our home to shop and try to attend all the local model train shows. People really like to be able to take a locomotive out of the box and touch it. If business continues to grow I can see us converting our garage to a retail store (thankfully we are zoned for this!). We're really excited about how Z scale is growing are also getting a lot of converts from other scales. Todd
JD, There are a couple of points I'd like to comment on in relation to costs and product availability. First off, hobby shops don't mark up prices higher than the MSRP. They do often have to sell at the MSRP to pay for the hired help, lights, insurances, etc. but they do not mark up product higher than list prices. Secondly, MTL is hampered somewhat by the fact that almost all of the product is made in house by US workers that demand higher wages than what overseas workers will do the same job for. With higher labor costs, they have less money to invest in R&D and new product release. If MTL outsourced all their products, there would be a lot of unemployed people in Talent Oregon. The majority of MTL products are made locally with minimal foreign assistance, but both AZL and MTL utilize US and overseas workers The online store is not designed to hurt the LHS, but to give the modeler who lives far from a hobby shop the opportunity to purchase the same products as he or she would be able to do if they could visit their LHS. The prices of MTL's online store will never be lower than hobby shop prices and new items are not available for the first month of a new release to offer the hobby shop first chance for a sale. While it is true it is fun to touch and feel and inquire personally before buying, it's much easier to push a few buttons and have the mailman deliver to your door instead of risking your life on the road and spending time and gas to go find what you want. It's also true that hobby shops can not afford to stock items that are slow to sell or may never sell. It's just the nature of the business. AZL's products are costlier to the consumer because of the higher amount of detail they put into their product. Many modelers can not afford the higher priced products, but that does not mean MTL's products are inferior. Both MTL and AZL deliver good products, but AZL chooses to offer higher detail and that factor results in higher bottom line cost to the consumer. I'm glad too for all new products that MTL, AZL, and any other manufacturer can produce. You can always go to the LHS and buy many other train related items so the friendly chat need not stop. One puzzling item......you mentioned Sea rails producing new Z products, but I've not heard of anything new in the last several months. Anyone heard of new products coming from Searails?
Loren, did not mean that the LHS increases the price above the MSRP. But I know there used to be higher percentage that Hobby stores would be able to work with. It has been a long time since I worked one, but I remeber the MSRP for marklin was 40% I think at one time, and now it is not. Again I am not knocking MTL, nor do I want them to send their work overseas, I rather it be built in America, but I am realistic in knowing that this is not possible for all manufacturing for Z. As for the purchase of cars direct, I respect your opinion but do disagree(please don't take offense). There are alot of LHS's that have internet and feel that this is a better place to go to get product. The advanatges to this I think are many-fold, first I get to talk with you when I buy products and learn immensly on all the knowledge you are able to tell me about the product or other products available to do what I need. As for Sea Rails I am just working on there Shark and RS unit, so I maybe behind the times, but can't wait till Gerd does his majic on them. JD JD
JD, I was just editing my original post when you posted yours above. No offense taken and you state a very valid point. I had mistated some facts originally and wanted to correct them before I led anyone astray. It is extremely tough for any business to make a good bottom line and I can certainly feel for both MTL and AZL who use some overseas manufacturing. I'm sure both companies would love to be able to have complete inhouse control, but in this changing world, all we can do is hang on and hold tight and hope we comprehend and understand all the new venues and processes that end up making these wonderful little gems we love so much. Bottom line.......we love our Z. Now if we were all rich beyond measure........)
I think that JD and Loren both make good points. I really don't think that a manufacturer or wholesaler selling directly to the public is necessarily a bad thing. As long as they sell their products at MSRP. And, as long as MSRP is enough above the wholesale price for a dealer to be able to offer a discount. The problem only comes into play if the manufacturer or wholesaler sells the product at a discount. This forces the retail stores to drop their prices to a point that they can no longer afford to sell the item. Walthers has been selling direct to the public forever. But with the exception of their monthly sale items, they sell for MSRP. That way, their dealers can offer a discount and still make a profit. The last thing a manufacturer or wholesaler should be is competition to its dealer network. Dan S.
