Hello all! Let me start by introducing myself. Im Rob, Im a 15 year old "noob" as some may call me. I have just got into model railroading, but trains have always been a part of my life. I have one of the most basic layouts that you would ever see, which I just started on 2 days ago. Its not too big due too space restrictions. Now, my question. Im wondering, I am setting up a rail yard, and I would like to know how you guys can controll one train while keeping others that are on the same line (on a siding, etc.) from moving? I have been hearing about the DCC systems? I am currently on...well... DC. Would that have something to do with it? Thanks for the help guys, it will be very appreciated! Rob
DC and blocks Well with DC you have to divide the track into parts that are supplied by different Transformers, so that when two trains are on the same line they are far enough apart that they are running on two different Transformers. There are better examples I'm sure that someone will come along and expound on what I've said. But that is the basic idea. DCC is set up where the track has power to it constantly and the message is sent from the Command Station to a Decoder in a Locomotive that gives it instructions on what to do and when. Still power Sections are recommended dependent on the size of the layout.(larger layout more sections) That's it in brief to the best of my ability without getting to complicated. I hope it helps you some.
Thanks! Thank you, that actually did clear the confusion! So, What Im gathing is that if I dont want the trains in my rail yard to move while Im running a train on my mainline, I have to have another controll box hooked into the yard's line? If that makes any sense. I will actually be posting a picture of what I want my layout to look like. Thanks! EDIT: Here is a link of the basic and small layout set up I want to try to build. Please, it is scaled down so put your curser over the picture and let me know what you guys think, and also, which placement is better for the railyards transformer. I was thinking #2, but I could be wrong. If #2 is the better pick, how would I attach the Cables/wires from the transformer to the track which is a switting rail/track. Thanks, Robert LINK: http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj197/caboose36/?action=view¤t=lastscan123.jpg
Hello, I hope you don't mind some comments. If you are just starting out, then your track plan is probably going to be plenty to keep you busy for a while. Just a word of caution, though...once you have run trains on it for a while, it will get old on you one night while you are asleep. The next day, you'll look at it and know you have to tear it down and plan something more involved, something with more purpose for the toy engines as if they were really meant to generate revenue. You now have a simple oval with an added rudimentary butt-end yard and roundhouse facility. An oval is great around the Christmas tree where you can walk away and go get a beer or a coffee...or answer the phone. But if it is all you leave for yourself when you are wanting to run your trains....it'll bore you to tears. Be that as it may, the important thing right now may be to get you up and running and learning stuff, and this will do. Just don't be dismayed, or alarmed, if the realization does strike you very soon after you are running trains. It happens to most of us, and a too-simple track plan is one of the things that does our first layouts in. If you are in DC, and don't currently have your track system broken up into electrically separate blocks, you won't ever be able to run one train and leave others idling or immobile. At the very least you'll need a series of simple toggle switches to stop power from getting to isolated chunks of the rails system. If you kill some areas of track, say the yard, and keep power going on the main, then yes you will be able to run a single engine out on the main. With DCC, you can still break up your tracks into managed "power districts", but the reason for that is more to keep voltage high by using boosters to keep power up on those segments. Also, the boosters will detect shorts in those areas and shut it all down if an engine gets crossways on a turnout and causes a short. But it isn't strictly necessary. You can power a large section of track with your DCC system, as long as you can keep the DCC signal, which is imposed on the square wave AC current always on all around the track system, as high as necessary to allow the decoders to "hear" it. Strong voltage everywhere is the DCC system's friend. It keeps the signal to noise ratio nice and high. DCC is on or off...no cranking up the voltage using your big knob on the controller. Once you flip the power switch, all connected tracks get the same voltage and DCC signals...at least, they will if you have solid power feeder wires meeting the rails here and there around the tracks. What sets DCC apart from DC is that any motive information, control for lights, sounds, and such, is embedded in the DCC signal, and only the decoder addressed with the signal knows that the instructions are meant for it. All other engines, with their own decoders programmed with their own addresses, will hear the signal, but know not to react to them since they were not the intended recipients. That is how you can get one engine, and only that one engine, to begin to move around the yard while the others clip their toenails, sip a coffee, and read the paper. Once you activate one of those other idle addresses on your throttle, they pay attention and will react when they get signals meant for them. It's a beautiful thing!
You might try finding one of the Atlas Trackplan books, as it has in there ways to manage DC layouts, wiring wise. It's not hard and not that expensive; one Altas track selector will allow you to run four different segments of track and up to two controllers/powerpacks. One track selector runs between 7 and 10 bucks, which might be a consideration. One DCC Decoder might run 15 bucks, and then the DCC system might run you another 180-300 bucks. As much as the DCC crowd might tell you that DC block wiring is hard or expensive, it really isn't either if you don't want it to be! You will need to pay close attention to the wiring diagrams in the Atlas trackplan book [I believe the title is "Six Trackplans you can Build" and it really is getting to be an old book!] as that will be the quickest way to get you through a moderate electrical education. You transformer, for instance, is drawn in a way that it WILL NOT run!! - both wires lead to the same rail!
I've attached a very crude diagram to put a visual to all these descriptions. Hope it helps. What are the dimensions your layout will be?
Welcome at TrainBoard, Robert. Nice plan. I would add an industry spur at the oval. This way your cars have a destination. And then, perhaps, off the table, an interchange track. Wolfgang
Hey guys! Hello all once again! One thing I have to add is it is really nice to finally find somewhere that people help you in a positive manner! Thanks alot! I just mersured my board and will post a picture with the dimensions. Oh, and Benny, I know both wires are drawn to the same rail, but my drawing was quick. :tb-tongue: Robert
Im wondering, I picked one of these up from the "$1 bin" at the hobby shop I usually visit. Im wondering, are these the toggel switches used? And the power insulators, who are they made by, and Im guessing its possible to pick them up from any local hobby shop? These are pretty much a completely knew discovery for me. thanks, sorry for being a nuisance, Robert
Robert that is for your switch machines, They are Atlas brand. The ones with four green switches side by side, are the ones you need for your blocks to switch from A control or B control.
Robert here is a cured drawing of how to wire two control cabs useing block switches from atlas. Sorry it is so sloppy. The yellow line are insulated rail joiners and the boxes with green lines are atlas cab selectors. Greg
Thank you! Thanks Greg, and everyone else, thanks for your help and imput. I need to pick up some more track, and then start laying it. But Im wondering, when Im at the hobby shop I will be asking about the insulated rail joiners and the atlas cab selectors. But, when I ask, do I call them by the names just listed? Thank you guys, Robert
Here is atlas web page that has the selectors and other things you mite need. There is some basic wiring there also. http://www.atlasrr.com/trackmisc/honaccessories.htm
Hey guys, things seem like they are working out good. I was looking at some DCC things also, and I was wondering, lets say I picked something like this up (http://www.digitrax.com/prd_zep_basic_set.php) what else would I need to get started other then the loco's? Because Im thinking about picking one of those up. But Im still picking and choosing so far, and would like to know what would all be needed to get my set running with DCC. Even if you could point me in the right direction with a link to a guide, that would even help. Thanks guys and gals, Robert
Welp, I'll tell ya. I got a Zephyr a couple weeks ago. Nice piece of kit. Got a good price here: http://www.johnshobbies.com/store/a...ephyr&osCsid=f0de1037be98cdd89856fefce17ae5cb I'm still building my layout... and I've purchased some locos. I'm already wondering if I shouldn't have gotten the next stage up. This is a super-minor thing.... but they add up. I found that many of the Solid State Auto-Reversers reportedly don't work with the Zephyr because the Zephyr only has 3 amps. BUT! Some people report they're using them anyway with the Zephyr and it works fine. Also, I -think- the PSX one goes down to 1.7 amps.... I still need to verify. So, thats a very small consideration... plus, you could always use Relay auto-reversers (as opposed to solid state). They're actually cheaper. But anyway, its little things like this that can add up and influence your decision on whether to buy the Zephyr or the next step up. I think I'll be fine with a Zephyr.... it'll probably do everything I want to do. Honestly, I never dreamed I'd have more than 10 locos on my 5X10 layout.... but once I started shopping for locos... and finding different locomotives in my favorite road names....well.. you can guess I'm getting awefully close to that 10 loco limit on the Zephyr. Now... I'll never be running them all at the same time. So, I -can- just swap out which addresses are programmed into the Zephyr.... and just change it up every couple weeks. So, you just have to decide if you'll be happy with it. Just be prepared that eventually, as you grow into it, you may have to spend a couple easy minutes here and there to switch things around because you got a smaller unit. Now.... the Digitrax line is extendable, too. Which means that if down the road you decide to upgrade.. you can still use your Zephyr as a booster. So, its not like you have to "get rid of it" if you outgrow it. Even last week I had a vendor tell me about a trade-up program where he'd take my Zephyr and give me a discount towards a Super Chief.
As for guides. There are hundreds of helpful sites out there. The forums as well. When I was first starting out, I stumbled onto this site: http://www.building-your-model-railroad.com/ I''ve read pretty much every article there, most of them more than once. Here's another site... these guys set the standards. http://www.nmra.org/ Many good articles there. Then there are separate places to look for DCC help specifically. This site has a lot of good info on DCC: http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_peco.htm I found a lot of useful information at Tony's Trains. The more research you do before you spend your money, the less chance you'll buy something you don't want. I've asked tons of questions on these forums and everyone seems to be so helpful.
To Big Steam and Caboose199 and all tuned in, I don't want to scare you and I know this is going to sound like blasphemy. You have the right to know...you need to know. CAUTION: Before you get to excited about Atlas Sliders and dual cab operations I would like to caution you. CAUTION: The "Common Rail" or "Common Wire" theory that Atlas promotes isn't the best or safest way to wire in your layout. Years of experience fooling with this system has taught me better. The end result or damage done Ie., Burned up motors and locomotives that won't run as well after running on Common Wired layouts. Mine or anyone else's. The theory is that the current will seek it's own source and return back to it. When you consider most electricity is simply looking for a ground, any ground...the theory begins to break up. It's the alleged searching that causes the problem for our locomotive motors. For example: If you start up one train Westbound and get it up to speed. Now start up another train Eastbound. You will note the first train...your westbound, will slow and start to stutter. The second train... eastbound will also have a stuttering start and will appear to be loosing power and stalling. Here you have the two currents from either transformer allegedly searching for it's own source by attempting to travel through the electric motors, a plus and minus working against each other causing the stuttering or stalling. In essence canceling each other out. You would be better off to run down to your local electrical supply house Ie., Radio Shack and buy a couple of DPDT, Double Pole Double Throw toggled switches. This way you never have the current from both transformers going out to the same track or locomotive...at the same time. The operation will be smoother and you will enjoy your layout...a whole lot more. If you stick with...the Atlas Sliders Cab A & Cab B, it will frustrate the poogeebee's out of you. You don't have to take my word for it. Go ahead and try it yourself. WARNING: Another one? Yes, and this is serious stuff. Be careful now. If you are operating with a transistorized cab that has a type of memory chip Ie., Momentum, Brake and etc...you can blow out the memory and the transformer will react by giving you constant...full power on. In essence...you will loose your transistorized throttle. A word to the wise is usually sufficient. But, who's wise? I was told this by an electrician 30 years ago and had to see it for myself. As have others. Seems we all attend the "University of the School Of Hard Knocks". I put this warning out on another train board about 7 years back. A good friend and fellow model rail, tried my experiment and blew out both of his transistorized throttles/transformers. Here's the catch. If you operate only one train at a time...it works. If you operate your trains in the same direction...it works. Try to run two trains in the opposite directions...simultaneously...and I told you so...I warned you. On your first layout, you'd be better off using a single cab and the yellow Atlas sliders for off and on, only. TIP OF THE DAY! Here's a tip you might appreciate. Since you are starting out brand spankin new, why don't you look at DCC. No common wire, no halting, stuttering and stalling...unless the track is dirty. Leave the Atlas stuff alone. Forge ahead. Your going to like it, I guarantee it. You'll learn. Just have fun doing it!
Thank you Rick that explains the problem, That I had on my first layout. I have decided to go DCC I just bought a NCE system. Again thank you very much. Now I know what happen to my transformers. Greg
Thanks Greg, I appreciate that. And, you are so right! Only to sorry, this word didn't get out and around to model rails sooner. I hate to see good equipment crash, only because of so much misinformation... out there. I would like to see Atlas put out a disclaimer or advisory. Have fun!
Hey BIG STEAM, BarstowRick, SackOHammers, and everyone else who gave me imput. Thanks! I think Im going to go with DCC! I will have to save up for a little while before I can pick a DCC System, but thats the way I think im going to go. I went and did some more searching last night and I found a pretty nice DCC guide on youtube. I was talking to my parents about being able to try and extend my current layout (Only so much room a 15 year old could get for his "toy trains":tb-tongue and they are currently thinking about letting me extend. The loco's I have right now are DC so im guessing I will have to sell them off so I could get a DCC loco when it comes time for me to get a DCC setup?
