Tim, Your post is exactly how I feel. If the track work isn't perfect and quiet, I don't want it. I can't stand the clack of a bad rail joint that can't be silenced with a file. I weathered a couple of freight cars the other day and had so much fun. I want to run rolling stock and weather it. I don't want to build a a layout forever. I do want nice long trains, beautiful scenery, and great photo ops, but there has to be a nice medium somewhere. That is what I am looking ot find now. I think I am going to copy some of the things I have learn from Pete Nolan and PSG. They seemed to have figured it all out. "
Hutch, I have quietly followed your progress and like others have marvelled at your enthusiasm and your talents. In reading your last post I can agree with all your points as I have modified and started over many times in the many years that I have been in this hobby. A lot of times I see that an individual's enthusiasm fizzles and then they just quit, all together. I am happy to see that this is not the case with you. All of the forums are really great but the best teaching and learning experience is by doing and creating new things yourself. Many people have never really built a significant layout (no bashing intended) and what you have previously built (and now torn down) very few people have attempted. I am in the process of constructing a new N scale layout (I ripped my old one down - 3 years old - a couple months ago. Now I am still going to build a big layout, I have the first level track down and fine tuned, but there are a lot of changes that I am making from my old layout experiences as well. I didn't build a helix before and won't on this one either. I am again doing what I believe they call a Nolix? and running trains during construction is not an option; it is mandatory! I have temporarily modified the first level track plan so that I can run several trains at once and when ever I feel like not constructing. My timetable for completing this layout is probably going to be like the strict guidelines that I set for my last one - none! So it might take me a while but I am have and am in this hobby for the long haul and as long as I am happy doing what I do; that's the only thing that matters to me. I think that there were more than a few of us who got a chuckle out of your posting as there were many points that a lot of us have experienced and learned by as well. I don't think you are crazy. It's people like you and me that keep the hobby dealers in business with all the track, switches and misc building materials that we constantly buy when we get into the "re-modelling" mood! I look forward to seeing your new layout plans. Brian
Chris: I'm sorry to hear that you decided to dismantle which you've already done your layout. Consider the time spent on it as a learning process. I for one feel a smaller layout is more manageable and easier to run and maintain. Three large levels was quite an undertaking. Having been in model railroading for over 50 years, I had my share of large layouts in O and HO scale. The maintenance of these layouts took more time than the actual enjoyment of running trains. The JJJ&E is a small layout 10x15 in an inverted "U" shape. It didn't start out that size nad has grown through now the third expansion which is progressing slowly and has been delayed dueto the collapse of the shelving over one month ago. Now all the damage has been repaired and I'm starting to work on the expansion again. I enjoy running the layout for about an hour every day. The trackwork is flawless and I usually have trains running at each operating session with no derailments from track problems. Since the JJJ&E is now seven years old, it's a mature layout although 15% of the original scenery has yet to be completed. I seem to always find other things to do instead of finishing the scenery. It will get finished at some point in time. Take some serious time to plan this new layout as I'm sure you want to get started building again. You have my number if you want to talk about your proposed new layout. Have fun. Stay cool and run steam.....
Brain & Bob, Thank you for your supportive posts. They make me feel even better about my decision, not that I am regretting it all that much! Brian it is nice to know that I am not the only one who has struggled with 'starting over'. You are right in every point you made. Bob, you are also correct. I really need to get this layout plan right. Unfortunately, layout planning is a weakness for me, but I am sure you guys are all willing to help as always. I wish I could explain to you guys about how much better I feel about getting to start over. It is a huge relief! Thanks.
Chris, You should be proud of yourself--you built in 7 months what would take me 2 years, spent oodles of dollars to get the layout to where it was, and then dismantled it because it wasn't working out the way you had hoped. Instead of living with it, getting burned out, frustrated, and getting out of the hobby; you took charge, and refused to allow a few lessons learned from keeping your hobby fun for you. Congrats! If the last one was so good, imagine how good the next will be!!! What is your era and locale? Will the Stampede Pass area be changed for flatter territory?
You know, I love the Stampede Pass area, but I am keeping an open mind. I have a 13 x 15 square to work with with a door in one corner, so everything is open to change. I am limiting myself to one main level and storage / staging under it somehow, but only with plenty of clearance.
Chris, I can understand where you are coming from, I built my layout in two stages and still have a 3rd stage on the drawing board if I ever get around to it. I totally completed the first stage including control and scenery and ran trains for a few years before I extebnded the layout, that way I was able to enjoy running trains etc while i rested from construction. If you go to my old website you can see the history of the layout, here is a link to it Railroad 2000 I look forward to seeing your new design, I do agree thuogh that one level is much easier to construct and maintain.
Hello Hutch, sad news for all the followers of your progress, I think it is indeed good news for you! I can only applaud to your decision to strat over: If you are not satisfied with the beginnings but you keep on building despite the nagging feeling that soemthingis not quite right it will become more and more difficult to start over as your investment (time + money) will be ever larger. I read your comments on the decision to start over very carefully: I share some of the feelings towards double-deck layouts: If the upper deck is too high it can be a royal pain. And Helixes are not to be taken lightly, they eat a lot of real-estate and need to be bullet-proof (mine is not, but I do have a saftey net (literally) preventing covering the lower end...) But at least for me double-deck is the only way I could fit the mainline (Stampede Pass) and Terminal (Tacoma) I wanted into the small room I have available (roughly 10 x 10 feet). So enjoy the planning of the next layout, incorporating the lessons you have learned. Keep us poosted and most important: Enjoy and have fun. Cheers Dirk
The next layout will be just as impressive I hope, just not two levels. I still have a 15 1/2 x 13 1/2 room to work with. I am more fortunate than most. My main problem is a new layout plan, but in reality that isn't a problem at all, but rather an opportunity to learn something. Thanks for all the posts guys. I appreciate it!
Chris, You really don't have to scrap a dual level layout, just make it less complicated. The huge overhangings on the last one gave you headaches and lighting issues, right? Well, make them more shallow in depth. In N scale, a nicely detailed scene can be made in 10-12 minches. You don't necessarily need 30" deep scenes, although they are nice! I have contemplated a dual level layout for my 8x8, but it has to be prtable. That's what I have to keep drilling into my head. Your rendition of Stampede Pass was very nicely executed so far, but I dont think you'll get much more than 2 or 3 signature scenes in the small room you have, on a single level, without huge compression. A nolix style climb from one level to the next, with basic scenicking would suffice rather than a helix. Just my 2 cents!
Chris: I still think a one level layout would be more manageable for you. You can still have multilevel trackwork but keep it confined to benchwork on one level. Stay cool and run steam.....
I knew that.. Bob makes a great point. My next layout is going to built like Bob explained, no less.. Doh! I'll just go back to my corner now..
Hemi: That's how I built the JJJ&E. The entire mainline plus some is multi-leveled while the benchwork is on one level. It's reduces complicated track situations such as helixes and makes the layout very easy to maintain. Chris: You can have the best of both concepts if you plan your layout very carefully. Stay cool and run steam....
Bob, I have searched every book I have and can't find anything. I suck at planning a layout from scratch. Sure, I can draw random track and throw in a yard, but there is much more to layout design than that. What do you suggest? I have the Armstrong books, but I am not prepared to design from scratch. I also have his layout book, but those are really complex, multilevel deals. Other books use tiny radi. Where do I go from here?
Chris: Take a look at Linn Wescott's "101 Trackplans for Model Railroaders" Trackplan # 62. You can modify that plan to fit in your 13x15' space easily. It is multi-leveled. It can be point to point or continuous running and has a very decent yard. The scenic possibilities of that layout are endless. Your construction techniques will make that layout easy to build and is very modifiable I modified one of the plans in that book for the JJJ&E. The plans are in HO scale but are easily changed to N scale. Stay cool and run steam.....
The plan is called "The Adirondack RR" and is on page 35. They fit into a 12x12' area which you could change to your room size of 13'x15. You can use the basic plan and then add or subject to your needs. It doesn't show a turntable but there is room for one and associated track. It's basically a "U" shaped layout on the bias with alot of mainline track with several reversing loops. If I had the space I would have used this layout with some modifications for the JJJ&E. Stay cool and run steam....
Track Plans Consider using computer software to design a layout. Get something like XTrkCAD or CadRail or whatever is out there. Find something that you like, then start laying something similar out in the CAD program. The more you work with it, the more you will make it yours. I spend nearly 3 weeks tweaking a 2' x 4' n-scale layout before starting construction. Honestly, I think your problem is the same as all of ours: lack of patience. Try and take things slow and sure.
