Misleading Item on Ebay

I am a bit concerned about the people who are putting Atlas loco's made in China, on Ebay as Atlas/Kato's. This is O K for us who know the difference, But there are some that must be getting caught, as I nearly was.
Maybe we could email a bidder if we see the obvious and tell them the facts.
There is nothing wrong with the new Atlas, BUT it is not a Kato.
Doug Jaeger. Keep the B------S Honest!

 

Now that we got cought spying on China, we may have to fight them to get their poor workmanship over here anymore! Our greedy businesses sent our trade secrets to China and stopped manufacturing in the U.S., so there goes our cars, TV's Computers, Models, and now they have even sent us their basketball players. We could not mobilize the Armed Services today, that we did in WWII, because we are left with hamburger servers instead of manufacturing people like we had then. America is no longer as strong nor as secure as it was before Crucheve told Kennedy that Communism will take America by force, or subversion, but we will weaken you from your children up. Imediately our schools began hiring Russian professors and engineers. Why? We were warned! Slick Willy put over 60 Commie Engineers through a school on our weapons systems and computer controlled transportation plans. Why? We were warned! Don't worry about whether Flying Saucers are real or not, we got far more serious problems afoot, but no one seems to care.

 

nug,
I posted a HO Atlas S4 on ebay a while back and the person who won the auction backed out because he thought it was N Scale! It was posted in the HO section and said HO Scale in the listing! Guess it only proves that there are an equal number of nimrods, no matter what side of the fence your on!

2slim

 

Watash, can you imagine Americun industry building the numbers of warships and airplanes that they did in WWII? Today the war would be over before the contracts got approved. I heard that the USDA no longer inspects beef--they let the industry regulate itself. How much do you want to bet that there are more people (read key pounders) employed by the USDA now than when they were actually doing something? Well, I'll get off my soapbox. Maybe the railroads could mobilize, but there are fewer tracks than there were back then.
Sorry, Nug. Welcome to trainboard. It really is a great place and not everyone is as grouchy as I am.

[ 06 April 2001: Message edited by: fitz ]

 

Hmm, WWII was one of my passions when I was in High School, before I truely learned and comprehended the human component(love those P-38's!!!).

If I remember correctly, We as a nation were putting out an aircraft carrier every month near the end of the war. That is just incredible!!!

Don't even think about this country mobilizing for a war, especially through heavy use of the railroad. For some funny reason the head thinks wars are fought with rockets and other whatnots, but I tell you, the rockets are absolutely useless if you do not have the infrastructure to handle it(raw materials, construction, transport, and handling)

If we tried to go back to the volumes during The War, times the inflation factor, we would fall apart before we even signed the declaration. I honestly do not think our railroads here out in the southwest could stand up to traffic approaching a train every fifteen minutes. Before we'd know it, we would have a wreck and have great problems with rerouting the highballers. I know of only three lines that run into Cali from here: UP in Tucson, BNSF in Flagstaff, and UP through further up north. I am sure that there are more, but each of these lines is separated by many miles laterally.

A beautiful thing about steam locomotives: As far as I know, they do not overheat!!! Just add water, coal, and lots of lube, and it's a go!!!

Can you imagine our current locomotives under that abuse? Units overheat just doing their runs!

 

This has turned into an interesting post.Alot of very sad but true comments.

But back to the original post a bit more.
The 3 Atlas locomotives I have I am very pleased with from every view.Performance is great, the level of detail is very nice as well for N-scale locos.I purchased these roughly 9 - 10 years ago or so. I do have the original boxes and they say " MADE IN JAPAN".

They are all EMD SD-7 models. 2 Denver and Rio Grande and one Southern Pacific.

I plead ingnorance in not knowing what the post refers too.Did Kato buy Atlas? or the other way around? And where mine say "Japan" why do the ones your referring too say China?

I have nothing by Kato so have no point of reference but If they are any better than these 3 they have to be amazing.

I guess I am trying to get just a more basic understanding if you mean the ones on E-bay are somehow not as good how do I tell by the usually somewhat poor photos on Ebay?

Just curious and I guess I'll start another post to see what others think are the best these days to buy.

Later

 

Mopartex,
On E-Bay you can e-mail the seller and ask questions before you bid. By E-Bay rules, the Seller HAS to tell you the truth or he gets Black-Balled!

For a long time the Swiss made the finest quality Kits and parts. The German and Swiss have together made high quality equipment, although sometimes complicated, but ran like Swiss Watches. Before the War anything from Japan was junk, what was called pure tin like Carnival giv-a-ways etc. After the War, Japan in its struggle to survive used their expertise and centuries old craftsmanship to produce really good merchandise. Our manufacturing here in the U.S. was becoming based on Mass-Production as the way to get costs down to where we still had fairly good quality at a cheap enough price to sell to the World markets. We were competeing with countries that had children working for food, and sometimes they even got paid a few cents a day. It is the same as today where a lot of your Diamonds are cut and faceted by six year old kids in India. You can find out where all this happens, even here in the U.S.! Our Importers got greedy to the point of setting up manufacturing plants in these countries to "Teach" that country's people how to build a better life for themselves, by making products that the rich Americans will buy. You rich Americans do not know any better than to pay over a hundred dollars for a twenty five dollar product, because our country allows the media advertizing to indoctrinate you to believe you should buy, not boycott the bad businesses.

Right after the Korean "Police Action" we sent our tax dollars to them because we got our butts kicked, and had damaged their economy by butting into their squabbles that had been going on anongst themselves since the early 1900's. They threw the French out, went back to fighting again.

We are a War based economy, so to solve the Depression problem, we had to make War equipment and sell to someone, until Japan decided to prevent the western world powers from taking over the Aisian Islands. So Japan attacted the U.S. and we had a War which set us up in business again. We destroyed Japan and had no one else to sell to, so we looked around for another War an d found the Koreans. After we trained the Koreans, the even better models came from them, but our importers were not making enough money even yet.

We had import tarriffs against European countries, and couldn't deal with Russia, so our importers looked to Tiwan (Foremosa) and found a gold mine of cheap labor with no restrictions. Fairly adequate parts and assemblies came from Tiwan for awhile, then quality was caut again to gain profit.

Then "Tricky Dick" decided we should deal with the Communists and opened up trade with Red China. (Remember we were warned about the Communist way back)! Here again is a gold mine of cheap labor, so backward they would sell their daughters for food. The Commy leaders were anxious to have the U.S. dollar and gladly allowed our greedy companies to set up manufacturing plants in China so long as we shared some of the profits with the Red Leaders. Its OK you see, that is not bribery, that is Lobbying, the same way our government is run today.

We are educating and instructing the Chinese as fast as we can, so just wait, and you will be modeling with rice paper engines and paying over a thousand dollars for the priveledge. That is rather stupid, isn't it? Not according to present business practices!!

 

MoparTex - Atlas was having Kato build their locomotives until the early/mid-90's. Atlas then contracted with a firm in China for loco building, and still are I believe. Prior to Kato, Atlas was having their locos built in Austria, I think by Roco(?).

I own one each Atlas/Kato and Atlas/China loco, both N-Scale RS-1's, and my opinion is that the Atlas/Kato loco is better quality.

Hank

[ 07 April 2001: Message edited by: Hank Coolidge ]

 

Watash, you make a very good point, it is the same in Australia, all our manufacturers are using Asian slave labour to make more money by selling us crap. The biggest growth industry here seems to be the "Crazy Charlie crap shops". I don't think we could even make a rifle now. But if our kids could fight with computer games they would do OK.Getting back to the point, Some sellers are deliberately using the Kato name to get more money, always gets back there eh.
Atlas has had some fine products over the last few years, but now they are like every other greedy manufacturer, substituting quality for profit.
If you did email a seller, would he tell the truth? don't think so.
Early Atlas N scale were made for them in Japan by Kato, as with HO they were made by Roco, then Kato. Since the u-boat series Atlas has been made in China. Atlas classic's etc.
Have a good one!
Doug Jaeger

 

Benny, just so happens that I worked for Lockheed for a whole lotta years. This airborne train is for you.

 

Ain't she a beauty! I wanted to own one of those, but I figure that it would cost an astronomical price for initial cost and then the upkeep, and that would take away my train budget, so I am railroading instead!

 

Awesome, fitz, the p-38 was one of my favorites, too

 

Fitz I love that P 38

 

I know they got one out of the ice that was abandoned in Greenland. Did they ever get the others? Two other planes I liked during the War was the Corsaire and the Stuka. I got a chance to do a ground/flight in the Corsaire once! That was some plane! There was some oil man that had a Stuka he used to fly out of Love Field. He had painted it black and red, sure was pretty! I also got 400 hours in on a PT-17 with Ted Hart who was a Test Pilot for Boeing at Wichita, Kansas and across the street neighbor. He taught me to fly, and was a friend of my Uncle Howard who was Chief of one of the Tool Rooms at Boeing. Long story, but not about trains.

 

Yeah, that operation to retrieve a P-38 from under the ice in Greenland was really something. It was featured in the Smithsonian aviation magazine a few years ago.
The P-38 in the photo belongs to Lefty Gardner of Breckenridge, TX. He's older than you are Watash, and still flies that baby in airshows and RACES at Reno every year. Do you know if the Confederate Air Force is still alive and well in Breckenridge? I haven't heard anything about them for a long time.
If any of you are interested in Lockheed airplanes or air racing, check out my website, the link is part of my signature. It is mostly trains, but has some airplane stuff too.

 

Again a bit off the original topic but continuing with the Confederate air force thread.
First let me say that in the early 90's they moved from Harlingen.They had been ther for as long as I had known about them but now they are based out of Midland ,Texas. Now there is a reason to go to Midland lol...
I live in Austin Texas and my home is just under the beginning of Final approach for Austins new Barbara Jordan airport.About 12 miles or so to the north of it.Here in central Texas we get winds off the Gulf of Mexico so the wind is blowing out of the south 90 percent of the times and they almost always land going tinto the wind.It was built at the location of the old Bergstrom Air Force base. I bring this up as an aside to the Confederate Air Force.
When it was still a base we used to have an almost yearly air show there. I am one of the few in the neighborhood that miss the military planes. The commercial ones are much quieter so the neighbors like that aspect.But on the days leading up to the air show the "fly in" of the planes used to be great.
The Confederate Air FOrce has such an amazing collections of planes.The "thrum" of the old planes always sounded so cool even if they weren't at full throttle. I would guess altitude wise( I dont fly either so I am just guessing) that the planes fly over my house between 1500 and 3000 feet or so.Although when it was a base the military planes always seemd lower than the commercial jets do now. Once in a while they would come in in squadron formation,one would land and the rest would circle and every time they passed over there would be one less. a Couple of Corsairs, alot of P-51 Mustangs,and a very wide assortment of Japanese planes some were Zeroes others were the torpedo bomber type with the long glass cockpits.
They also had the one I really love.Those Bombers. They have a B-17 and a B-29.But man what a noise those rascals made.Its just this incredible rumble. I can not begin to imagine what those must have been like in wartime.The sound one makes is this unbelievable , almost growling sound.Just sounds like power.The sound of a whole squadron of those must have been amazing.
Then there was that P-38. A much higher pitched sound that just sounded fast.That has been one of my favorite planes since my old Monogram and Revell model building days.The military planes usually made a much sharper turn than the commercial aircraft do now,and that P-38 was no exception. Ive got a picture somewhere in a box,unfortunately the picture doesnt do it justice. But It came in one year nearly knife edged just screaming over the house. I mean these guys were flying like they were late for a hot date. I could see it from maybe a mile or to to the east. and just before it got straight over head it sttarted the bank. It was up on that left wing tip at least 70 degrees or so.What a great sight it was to see that.
I am truly an fan of these old war planes but am very ameteur in my knowledge.I do know what I like though and I do like the sound of these old warbirds.

If anyone is interested in more detailed info their website is http://www.confederateairforce.org/

I am still not sure how the URl button works so I typed it if the link doesnt work.
Alot more detail on who they are and what they fly as well as some cool photos. It looks like it added the link last too but I dont know how to move it.

Later GregConfederate air Force

 

I have 4 Atlas/Kato C-424/425 (Conrail and N&W). I also have four of the newer Atlas C30-7's. All these units are excellent runners. Not all of them have been switched to DCC yet, but I can mix and match them. Oh yeah, I can put my 3 new Atlas GP40's in the mix too. They all run well together.

As for being able to identify a Kato/Atlas from a regular Atlas, just look at the bottom of the loco. It will either say Kato or made in Japan. The box itself will say made in Japan. But, be wary of going by the box alone. I have seen some unsavory dealers, put a Roco Atlas in a Kato Atlas box. The Roco/Atlas units say made in Austria on the side of the box. They are now where near the quality of the new Chinese or older Kato/Atlas. Also some dealers tend to keep the prices up on the Kato/Atlas units. I have seen some dealers price them as high as $120 each. But if you look you can still get some for around $55 in very good or new condition.

 

I love it when people Mislabel something they put on ebay. Especially when whatever is mislabeled as junk!

Here follows a description of one I won the other week:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Here is a Huge batch of HO train cars and parts. If you enjoy building your own from the ground up this will provide a good basis. The locomotive is unmarked as to maker and is in pretty good condition. The pickup unit is present but is not connected. The tender for this is just the shell and it is cracked and chipped so it's probably of no use. There are several pieces of rolling stock in different states of disrepair and the one with the large metal tank on it is made from Balsa wood. The is also a small baggie with wheel and parts and a box of Balsa strips that could be used for running boards, There are several manufacturers represented. There is NO RESERVE on this and I'm certain there is material of value and use in here. Payment in US funds must be received within 12 days of auction closing and please add $5.00 for domestic postage. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And guess what <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The is also a small baggie with wheel and parts and a box of Balsa strips that could be used for running boards<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> is.

An Amroid Dry Ice Car Kit era of about 1919(the car, as desribed in the instructions), Nearly complete!!!(only missing a brake wheel)!!!!!!! Not even started!!!

Gosh I love It!

Good luck to all.

 

Just a quick note about the P-38 that was recovered from under the ice in Greenland. While roaming the mountains of eastern Kentucky, looking for coal mines, coal, and coal trains, I acme across the Greenland P-38. It is being restored in a hanger at the MIDDLESBORO KENTUCKY AIRPORT. The people there are more than happy to have vistors, take donations, give tours, and answer questions. Restore may be the wrong word to use, build a new airplane is more like it! Those guys were able to get a lot of parts out of the ice, but not the whole airplane.
They might have a website, but I don't know what it would be.

Now Back to Trains!
MARK