N shelf 10' X 2' help

Hello, I'm a former HO-on-the-floor guy getting into N scale. I'd like some pointers in figuring out a layout. I currently have 10' of space to construct a point to point shelf layout. It can be between 18" and 24" in width. In the future I might be able to add a 4' module to that, but it would be quite some time in the future.

I'd like to model the current era set in the Northeast, with decent operational characteristics. I have an Amtrak P42 on order from Kato, and I plan to pick up some Amfleet cars in the future as my budget allows. I would also like to acquire some CSX motive power for freight.

The geographic setting would be influenced by the Hudson River Valley. I would like to incorporate a mainline with a small station for the Amtrak, and some sort of freight yard for switching activity. I really like this industry http://www.¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤.com/Walthers-N-933-3211-Allied-Rail-Rebuilders-Ki-p/933-3211.htm and would set it up as an off-the-main locomotive restoration shop, allowing me to run some older '50s era diesels and steam in the future.

I've seen some English layouts where they use a tunnel in the middle of the layout to create a visual divider, allowing them to have a built-up area on one side of the tunnel and a more rural area on the other. That seems like a neat way to go about getting more visual space in the same footprint. I'm aware of the importance of staging tracks and would like to incorporate something to that effect as well.

This grade crossing with industry looks really cool to me.
And this mainline going into a tunnel looks cool too.

Since I've never worked with N before, I'm not sure on what the appropriate radius would be for modern era equipment. Nor am I sure what track to use. My HO is all Bachmann EZ track. I see some very nicely planned layouts on here - is there a software program people like to use?

 

My rule of thumb is to always use the largest radius possible in the given space, regardless of what's being run. Larger radii are always better--more realistic, more reliable. At any rate, with a 10 x 2 foot space, there won't be too much call for curves. On the flipside of this, the choice of track might become an issue: your available space and choice of locale to model call for long, sweeping arcs, and sectional track isn't going to offer this option. You may need to stick with a straight mainline, or bite the bullet and learn to use flex track (it's not onerous).

My program of choice is AnyRail. It's not free, but IMO it's worth every penny.

 

I think a tunnel in the middle might be a little awkward, maybe a highway overpass would suit your needs. A rural town can provide plenty of ops, especially if you are balancing passenger and freight services. Keep your radii as large as possible for realism. Try to keep it above 20", closer to 36" looks even better. Modern equipment prefers #6 or larger turnouts.

 

I was going to post the very same remark; however, the Hudson River valley does have some pretty dramatic, spectacular scenery, including a number of tunnels...

That said, given that it's a shelf layout, will it serve much purpose to model a passenger line, when the trains will only be shunting back and forth from one end to another? This also has a bearing on train length: unless you're OK with doodlebugs or three-car push-me-pull-you locals, most modern passenger consists are fairly lengthy. I'd think it awkward to have a train 1/3rd the length of the layout--not much mainline left to go anywhere. I think it all points to a need for further evaluation of the modeling goals. If it were me, I'd stick with freight, and put the passenger equipment on a mantle.

 

As far as passenger power, I would run a small consist of one locomotive and three or four coaches from time to time. It would be an occasional use. As far as freight, I'm not sure if unit trains or mixed freight would be more realistic here.

 

This kind of point-to-point layout really requires staging yards at each end to accomodate the passenger, through mixed freights, unit trains, and locals . You would need at least 5' for each yard , although you can have a lot of tracks in a 12" width. Can you place some staging bent around corners, etc? Another possbility is have them on casters and temporarily attached when using the layout and then disconnected when not (also avoids having to remove all the equipement this way).

If you only had room for one yard, I'd make it into a small one coming off the mainline to serve a nearby industrial district. You could have a depot but it would be more for looks. If it was a medium sized station you could "stage" a short commuter train "waiting" for the afternoon rush.

Peter

 

There are plenty of Amtrak trains that only 6 or so cars plus a locomotive. This could easily be scaled down to 3 cars and the locomotive, or a 2 foot long train in N, which would be about the same as a modern freight train with one loco and 5 cars. Adding a Amtrak train is actually a great way to add a some mainline action to a layout of this size.
Some photos of this type of train.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=449287&nseq=59
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=459961&nseq=14
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=460450&nseq=12
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=464954&nseq=0

 

Yes, but what sort of "action" are you talking about? Unless the layout is fitted with staging cassettes on one or (preferably) both ends, that "action" is shuttling back and forth 7 or 8 feet... just sayin'...

Contrast that with a freight train of the same length, which will be broken up and reassembled at multiple points along the main. Personally, this is "action" for me, but to each his own...

 

Bummer. I was really wanting to have a small Amtrak consist on the layout. If you were going to have N scale Amtrak, how long or how big would the layout need to be? I'm starting from scratch here, don't own any track or structures or anything as of yet. Alternatively, if I kept the 10' x 2' shelf layout, I was thinking of a slight reconfiguration. If I had it set up so that there was a locomotive restoration shop as the centerpiece, I could include a small town on the layout for some mixed freight deliveries. I don't know if this happens in the real world, but what if the restoration shop had an old division yard that was leased to CSX for storage and light classification?Just trying to get out of the oval mindset and into more realistic operations

 

This is precisely why I've been harping about passenger trains on a short shelf layout. No matter how you slice it, they're just not going anywhere. Same with unit freight trains--they're more like passenger trains than freight: they get loaded at one big facility, and unloaded at another, with no stops in between. A mixed freight, however, offers challenges that can be satisfied on layouts smaller than this one. Again, IMO, and YMMV.

 

Looks like I'll have to admit defeat on the Amtrak for now. Oh well.

View attachment 60724

Here's my first rough attempt at designing a 10' X 18" layout using Anyrail. Thoughts? Comments? Improvements?

 

Can't open the attachment.

Have you considered giving up the p2p constraint? You are willing to go 2 foot wide, so a dogbone or oval would fit with 11 inch radius. Any diesel loco or rolling stock will handle that no problem. Long cars won't look so great on 11 inch, but you wanted a tunnel - and guess what, a tunnel at one end could hide one of the 11 inch radius 180s... Turnaround at each end would leave you with 8 feet of layout for the straightish part for your passenger station/sidings.

 

I swear I'm computer literate.





Does that work better? This is my rough point to point idea, showing a mainline coming onto the layout from the upper right, passing by the storage yard leased to CSX. There's a small passing siding with the idea that maybe a small commuter platform could fit in, with a small spur for the loco restoration shop. The town would be in the middle of the layout, with possibly a grade crossing somewhere in there.

At this point in time nothing is set in stone aside from a desire for it to be N scale, set in the modern era, with decent operational characteristics and a small hope of the occasional Amtrak.

 

OK, for starters, all of your sidings are waaaaay too short--some could not even hold one car. The passing siding is too short to be of much use for ops. And running the track smack into the top right corner prevents possible future expansion, or at least being able to use a staging cassette.

Here's a revised version with all of the same features, reworked so that the sidings are all of useful length.



As for the grade crossing, I think the far left end would be a more logical place for it, given the arrangement of other track features.

With all of that said, you have a small yard and a restoration shop. What are you going to be doing? There are no industries to serve, so that's something to think about.

Now, if it were me, I'd first make a double-track mainline (more versatile for switching and for future expansion), then add at least two industries--the one in the foreground could be as simple as a loading dock (one need not model an entire industry to be useful for ops). I might even think of dropping the yard in favor of another industry and an interchange to switch...



Food for thought.

 

Unless you are deadest on running Amtrak you could use a small steam loco and a couple small coaches.Then you could run an excursion train.It would be fairly short and a lot of them stop at a certain point and backup to the point where it started.

 

I'd like to have Amtrak be an occasional presence but I'm okay with it being primarily a freight layout. Maybe when I can add another 4' on another wall I can look into bringing more of an Amtrak presence to it. Those two track plans above are very awesome. I guess I need to rethink the purpose for this particular stretch of the railroad and come up with a reason for its existence.

 

More food for thought: swap the yard for another industry, and utilize one of the mainline's spare tracks as an interchange. That'll be more work to do, for which you can use a leased loco from the restoration shop...

I'd use that space for staging. Perfect.