New MT Diesel?

Your minds already at work

 

I am disappointed that we will see a duplicate new locomotive release this year (if this is true). AZL has been working on this project for some time and we have been surprised by the rumors of a MTL GP9.

If the MTL GP9 runs like their GP35, it will be a great locomotive. If AZL's runs anything like the F59s or the upcoming SD70s, again, we will have an awesome locomotive. (Note, I saw the SD70s in action last week, WOW!),

I suspect the pricing will be close. The only difference may be the width of the lcoos. The MTL GP35 is too wide. If they use the same design for the GP9, the locomotive will be noticeably wider than an AZL GP7/9. You could really notice the difference when I compared the GP35 to the SD70.

I think at the end of the day, the Z scale community is going to have three great locos to choose from (ie.. AZL GP7, GP9, MTL GP9). Frankly, I can't wait to see the different roadnames that are released. It should be fun!

Rob

 

Rob:

PRICE -- approximately what will the AZL cost?? I doubt $1,550, but still AZL is usually pretty expensive vs what we have seen recently from MTL. If there is a large price spread then there is a reason for the MTL equipment. Further it is really unfair to say AZL has benn "developing" something for several years, when suddenly a competitior comes along and releases something in 9 months or so. I am pretty familiar with manufacting [NOT trains], but still I never found my company telling competitiors what was in the hopper. I certainly doubt MTL was geared up for new engines immediately after their first GP35 -- after all there were some powerful folks at MTL who did not want to spend the money to develop the first GP35. I suspect it was only after the first few GP35's sold so well that other new models got in line for potential production. Yippie for competition. ...don

 

AZL has served us with the most beautiful american Diesel and Steam Engines in the last years. I will support them in the future by buying their products (I also have MTL GP35's). Rob, tell the owners of AZL that they keep going their fine job! And BTW tell them again something about a Shay.

Regards
Jürg

 

Your minds already at work </font>[/QUOTE]Boy, I can already see the smoke comin' of the gears in your head!! Do you realize how many variations you can build on this one?! Who's gonna be the first to bash one into a low nose? Maybe they'll come out with one of these in GN sooner than a GP35?

 

Don,

Why is it unfair to say this? It is the truth. Fact, parts for the GP7 and GP9 were developed at the same time as the F59PHI run in 2003. As for telling competitors what is going on, interesting story here. Too bad I can't share. As for price, individual F59s sell for $170.00, same price as an MTL GP35. I can't guarantee this price for the GP7 or GP9s, but I doubt they will be more than the SD70s which are priced slightly above $200.00.

Personally, I will own versions from both AZL and MTL. I think both are going to be great locomotives. Both companies should be commended for their service to the Z community. The good news is that we will have a lot of choices for roadnames over the next few years. Wow, what a great time to be in Z!

Rob Kluz

 

I too, am disappointed that we will be seeing a duplicate engine produced in z scale this year - at least at this stage of the scale's development (and if it indeed is true )

However, looking at it positively, one of my complaints about MTL is that they don't usually release more than one number for a given road name. Two different manufacturers should mean multiple numbers. AZL usually releases different numbers, so there should be plenty. Not to mention there will possibly (and most likely) be slight variations in the paint - which is also prototypical.

Both manufacturers do an excellent job and I wish both to have continued success!

- Phil

 

Don,
Actually, it has been no secret that MTL had planned to get as much mileage from their GP35 chassis, and EMD 4 wheel trucks, as possible. This was stated several times at shows, etc. I'm sure that part of the reason that MTL agreed to go with a hood unit design, in the first place, was that they could get several different locos out of it. Since most of MTLs rolling stock falls in the transition era, it only makes sense that they had planned to go with a GP7 or 9 fairly quickly after the GP35. Like AZL, I'm sure they had planned a long term strategy for the parts developed for the GP35.
And there are a few differences between product developement in the model train world versus standard manufacturing. The easy part (although not the cheapest) is the development of the physical locomotive. The time consuming part is the research into what railroads had them and when, liveries. What kind of mileage will they get out of a new shell. Which loc will have the most widespread use in its "standard form". With AZL, they actually go as far as road specific details. This adds even more time to their research since a couple of color photos and a single set of builders' drawings will not do. So, several years of development is not unreasonable. Even though MTL doesn't do road specific details, they still had a lot of research to do. I just really wanted GP7s and 9s, so I'm just going to have to start putting money away now. Whoever comes out with the Pennsy first will get most of my business.
Dan S.

 

If the new GP7/9 in just gonna sit on the GP35 frame then I guess that means the same wide hood!

I would actually want a GP7, but not as much if the hood is too wide. I will wait to see what they look like though.

So AZL hoods are scale width?

 

Actually there is a little more info from some sources who do know [and no the info is NOT from Loren]... Yes the GP35 is a twitch wide, but I'll bet only a few people know it and if it has to be wide to incorporate the motor they are using I'll take the width. It's only a couple of MM if that much and my old eyeballs aren't calibrated that well any more - "use thinned paint" to cut the width. I am not knocking any manufacturer, but just hope the floodgates are opening by a ton of manufacturers. Bring on the equipment!!! ...don

 

AZL was faced with the same limitation with the injection molded shell. They opted to use some etched metal components to make the walls of the shell thinner. This makes it more accurate, but also more expensive to make. I'm with Don. If no one ever mentioned that the MT GP35 was too wide, and you never put a caliper across it, you would never notice it. If I remember correctly, the extra width is about 1mm. Or, just over one scale foot.
Dan S.

 

That explains the first pictures we saw of the SD70. Undecorated, it had a large area of a different color on the side that was clearly a separate part. However, it wasn't an area I'd expect would need to be swapped out for detail variations (unlike, say, the number boards).

I'd never noticed the GP35 had an over-width hood.

[ March 27, 2006, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: Triplex ]

 

I didn't mean to stir things up, but the GP35 reminded me of my Athearn HO GP35 I had when I was a kid. It also had a wide hood on it, I think they have since re-tooled it though.

I'm not saying they can't look great, Roberts re-detailed locomotives look fantastic.

The same company's (Maxon & Faulhaber) that make the 8mm motors also make 6mm motors.

Either way I will wait till I see photos of the models before I make a judgment on them. I'm perfectly happy with F7's for now.

 

Perhaps one company will do a GP7 and the other a GP 9? Seems that the differences between the two were very small, perhaps that could occur, giving us more choice?

 

I personally want both as there are sure to be differences in each.

As for the GP35's hood being too wide, how much too wide is it? a Z scale foot is 1.4mm, so 1 mm too wide isn't even a foot. If that number is correct, it would be about 10% too wide. That's about the same as the difference between 1/200 and 1/220th scale. For some folks that's a big deal, for others it's not.

While we are on dimensions not being exactly right, wouldn't MTL be compromising if they used an unmodified GP35 chassis for a GP9? Wasn't there a 1 to 3 foot difference in the truck spacing (wheelbase between bolsters)?

As for cost, it's all pretty much speculation at this point, but comparing full retail MSRP of the MTL GP35 to the cost of the F59PHI cowl body unit (with a larger 100mm motor) isn't quite fair. The MTL Gp35's can be had from discounters as low as $125 depending on the paint scheme and any new hood unit from AZL will be in the $175 to $225 price range depending on how many are made. The pre-order discount on the AZL SD70M's is $10, I think.

MTL doing a GP9 (which MTL still hasn't confirmed officially) shouldn't have been a surprise since that has been tossed around by them as bneing on their drawing board at least for 2 or 2 1/2 years now. Anyone can guess that either MTL or AZL or both would do any and all GP's since they all use some version of Blomberg trucks. (The old rumour of a "Gentlemen's agreement between the two about MTL doing 4 axle units and AZL doing 6 axle units was NEVER confirmed and the rumour lived on even after AZL did the F59PHI with B-B blomberg trucks. I won't even go into the pre-AZL Rogue GP38).

MTL might be very reluctant to share ANY information with other manufacturers since they got burned on their N scale FT project.

Yes, there are 6mm motors made by the same manufacturers as the 10mm and 8mm motors, but unless the prices have dropped significantly in the last year and the electrical ratings have improved, using a 6mm would just about double the cost of the motor. There have been reports that they aren't torquey enough to pull more than a few cars anyway.

I'm curious if either manufacturer would consider an unpowered dummy unit of the GP7/9 since they were frequently mu's. Yes, this might cut in to the sales of powered units but not everyone can buy whole strings of these at $125 to $225 a pop.

Remember, much if not all of this is speculation at this point.

Randy

 

Joe DAmato on the yahoo z group have now confirmed that mtl i releasing the GP9 high nose version.

 

Please don't read too much into my mini rant. I guess in the end a locomotive with a wide hood is better than no locomotive at all, but I think everyone would agree that a scale locomotive would be even better!

Plus I will add that I have only been "in" Z scale for a few weeks now.

I wonder what Joe's "other" announcement is?

 

Personally, I'm a little disappointed, though I'll probably buy one of each to support both companies.