There is a lot of interest in RP so I started this thread. For starters here is something if you folks want to try out by yourself the capabilities of the low end RP You're invited to a free 3D scanning & printing seminar. Get your favorite car in HO/N scan it and print it in Z Kim
Nice find Kim! After this techonology become affordable it will be a fantastic tool to have. Thanks for sharing. John
Loren there are two parts one is the scanner and the other the printer. so you scan your car model in HO scale with the scanner and you get the scanned image in the computer. You then clean up the image and add other things like hair or a spare tire if needed and scale it to any other size which we would be Z for us and use the 3D printer to print it. So you get a smaller model (exact replica) of the bigger one. That is the gist of this but there are many problems with it including the resolution and surface finish when it comes to Z scale. That is why I called it the low end version. It would be a good start to see the process. Kim
Maybe! but this one claims to do 0.004" thick layers, but there is nothing like doing some real Zscale trials to be convince, so far the $15k ones have not convice me to invest yet, even when they were claiming micron size layers with their z axe, and this from seeing all the samples I had requested from a few sellers, RP manufacturers are quite not there yet, maybe in a year or 2, we should see improvement with the low prices machines. I hope.... Ben
To put it in persective, you could scan an 'O" scale and get an acceptable HO scale. No glossy texture for sure, more like matte. Scale that same O down to z and it will look grainy or layered. They're just not for our scale. And only good for rough drafts at that. .
Something don't add up here Jeff? If you scan an O Scale model, and the scan is made of say 1000 triangles, and you scale them down to Z, then those triangles shrink 4.5 times, and by being 4.5 times smaller, the model if faithfully reproduced would be 4.5 times smoother! Prove it yourself, draw an octogon. Next draw an octogon rotated 22.5 degrees over the first, and in the center it starts looking more like a circle, draw another octogon 11.25 degrees rotated over the last, and it gets rounder yet. So the artwork must get smoother as it scales down, because it's composed of the same number of triangles as the original art, just the triangles are now smaller. Now scaling up from a small scanned object will make the triangles larger, therefore, the resolution gets worse. You would not want to scan a Z Scale car, then scale it to O Scale, because the original scanned image would be composed of far fewer triangles, limited by the scanner and relative to the 1000 triangle O Scale model, the original would yield 11 triangles, and the model printed using an optimum printer would look like it has facets like a cut diamond. I have never had any classes on 3D artwork, but I am sure is MUST be a form of vector art, fully scaleable to any size, as that's what is needed for machine control. It's just a matter of the resolution of the printer, not the scanner. So, how small of an X, Y, and Z Step do we need for a model to look good in Z? That's where we need advancement. We just need an RP printer that can print something like .0001" steps in X, Y, and Z, and do it fast like an inkjet printer prints.
Exact! If anyone has time, try and go see a manufacturing process show, you guys in California should have bigger ones than we have here in Montreal, and look at all the RP machine in the show, I have seen quite a few machines there, and the afordable ones that had resolution of 0.004" had "all" different surface finish, and not very Zscale friendly so far. Of course I've only analyse the one that had solid raw material like ABS plastic and so on, any breakable resin in powder or wax, was always out of the question, so far I never saw any afordable RP machine that could do 0.0001" steps. But I'm going to a show next month, I'll see if there are new machines compare to last year show. Ben
Rob, I meant printed grainy. Yes, the printer is the major issue. Ben, We have the Design-2-Part shows here, actually next month. Kim and I have been to it several times and even had samples made. Not even close enough. .
Same results here Jeff. It is astounding what some sales rep will try to do to convince you that their machines can do fine details. But we "all" come from another planet for them, when it comes to the details we are looking or asking for, LOL! Ben
Both encouraging news, (a little) and discouraging new, (more so). If the printer ever develops to the point we can get smooth surfaces, then the guy with the money is going to be able to supply a lot of sorely needed items for Z scale. Kind of makes you dream doesn't it !!
resolution I was talking to a guy at the 'London festival of railway modelling' a couple of weeks ago who was really keen to do me all the cars I need for 'Cuyahoga' in Z. Bel-airs, El Caminos, Dodge Chargers etc until he came and actually looked at the layout and realised just how small a moulding we were talking about. It seemed that the pieces he produced using one of these 3D printers in HO and O needed to be sprayed with a primer/filler aerosol and then lightly sanded down to lose the lines left in the moulding by the process. We are going to do a couple of tests when I send him some artwork but I'm not optimistic. If it does eventually work the skys the limit. There is a word we use in England 'Blagged' which can mean something copied, borrowed or even stolen. I wonder how many HO things we covet in Z will get blagged?!!!!
I'm amazed that everytime one of these topics comes up, everyone seems to have forgotten how good the Mark4 products are that are produced using Perfactory. The technology is already out there, not the cheapest, but good enough quality for Z scale.
Who cares where the master came from, as long as we get them in Z! After all, the master was a copy of the original car, so itself was a scaled down copy.
I find this all very interesting because if possible, it really opens up the door for just about anything a person could want from cars, locomotives, to rolling stock.
I have used a few of M4D engine hoods and I can attest that the quality is very VERY close to injection molding. There are very minor artifacts on some angle slopes but these can be sanded or hit with an extra coat of paint. Perfactory is the way to go, but the machines are about the most expensive out there. My idea? Get a prinable file ready, send it over to Mark and use his prototyped master to make resin castings. Resin is much more rugged, and you can fix any minor imperfections in the process. Oh and you would save lots of money.
Ahhhhhh!!! Brain Cramp!!!! I agree 110% with your statement!!!! How can the most active of Z scalers forget about Mark Gasson's works of art? I own several of each rollingstock he has to offer!!! On a scale comparable to the late Make My Model and to the current Searails, Mark Gasson's machine is a 9.5+ while MMM and Searails comes in at a 4.5 - 5.5 and that is pushing it. The material is the key. You wanna work for your art by coating and sanding or just pull it from the package ready to go? Paint, decal and Go!!! I wish either I lived close to Mark or that he lived close to me as I would have him show me how to use that beauty of a beast he has. Any comments from owners/builders of M4D's Z rollingstock kits? Now's your time to chime in and support a part of Z that could use some support fertiliZer to help it grow!! How about you Mark, you reading this, please comment of the capabilities of your wonderful machine!!! Your Z audience awaits!!! Hobo Tim
I just visited Mark's website and a part of the service he provides is scanning, editing and 3d printing. Anyone could use his services and create a model for Z. Kim
Mark4 I got a few of his car models (Ambassador Sedan, 2 door Chevette 1977), they are absolutely beautiful, fine detail. (mind you, full cast models, so no windows - like most of the models by Alvaro). The material reminded me of that of a haircomb. You have to do the paintwork yourselves, but hey, at this price? I would really advise anyone to get a few of his cars, and don´t forget the gastank! Every home needs one :tb-biggrin: Matt (no, I am no shareholder to this NZ company... )
