Slightly Strange Experience Today

The town square where I live includes an old depot now owned by the town, and a restaurant in train cars (never moves) on I believe town owned land. A NS main line runs alongside through town, with two sidings (one double ended, one not). It seems to be a popular place for NS to set out bad orders.

Today I went over to get lunch and maybe some video of a train. From the town property you can get a nice view of passing trains, so it's a nice spot. Much to my surprise there was a locomotive and car on the siding, a full contracting crew, and several NS people.

I got out my video camera and walked up the sidewalk (across a road that runs parallel to the tracks). I took a few still pictures with it (which I brought my real camera) and then ran across a group of around 4 people. As I walked up one asked "who I was with", I assumed he thought I was press and said "no one, just a rail fan". He smiled and said "take a picture of this guy, employee of the year" and pointed to one of the guys. Who smiled and was embarrassed. He pointed back and said this guy is the head guy, take his picture. I smiled, and declined both offers. I asked what was up and the "head guy" offer that there was a broken wheel they had to swap out. At that point he got back on the phone.

The other guys came across the street near me, near a cooler. I made some small talk, and asked when they were going to get to it. One of the lead contractors (or so I assume) offered they were waiting for one more train and then would get to it, and said I should get set up for it. I did, and got a video of a train coming through about 1 minute later. I thanked him, went off and got some lunch, and came back about 35 minutes later.

I got my camera again and took a few more stills and one more video. I walked up and down both sides, being careful to stay on public sidewalks on both sides (the line has roads on both sides there, with sidewalks on the far side on one, and both sides on the other). While doing this a truck showed up with a wheel set and they started to go to work.

I crossed the tracks (on a sidewalk) and stopped at a corner near the "head guy". He was in his car. I looked at what they were doing while waiting for traffic to clear so I could cross. He rolled down his window, looked at me and said "I don't want you shooting video of this, and don't forget to stay off RR property" and started to drive off before I could even respond. I yelled "allright" in his general direction and headed back to my truck.

While I had thought about trying to video the whole operation, there was no good place to do that, the light was not right, I didn't have enough tape, and I didn't have the time. So I just left.

I suspect he didn't want video of an accident.

Still, I found it a bit bizarre, friendly when I was first nearby, even answering questions. Then, rather, well, cold, but clearly not that interested in me as he was driving off rather than making sure it sunk in.

Not a big deal, I'm careful to stay far away from such activities and on public sidewalks, roads, etc. He wasn't really hostile, and didn't run me off, but the change of attitude caught me off guard. In the end, leaving was probably the best option, if I ever see him again that may work in my favor.

The contractor said he was the "yard foreman", but NS doesn't have a yard here but he was in an NS truck. I'm at the end of NS territory, so he may have been the "do everything" guy here.

Just a little strange.

 

what an odd day of railfanning he was probably just joking or something like that i would of stuck around and saw how they did it but if he looked like a man that could go on a nuclear rampage in a split second than i suspect that you get in your car and skid out of there i dont understand why he would not stay to hear your response
it sounds like a mistery call in the detective (not really) well have fun at the resteraunt can you show us some pics

 

I have some pics, and actually, some great video. I think I may have spooked him by having my video camera (HD no less, but I don't think he knew that) rather than my still, which is unusual. I'll try and get them posted next week.

Thinking back I think he may have felt he encouraged me too much with the friendly banter in the initial meeting; and wanted to counter act that a bit. He may have been actually concerned for the company if I video taped them lifting a locomotive to swap a wheel in the field and something went wrong. He may also have been caught off guard I wasn't press in the initial meeting, and hold a lower view of railfans than press.

I have decided if I ever see him again (which is unlikely) I will introduce myself, make him aware I support OLI, have no intention of publishing bad press on his company, and have no intention of trespassing on railroad property. I actually wish I had asked him to stay for a moment to relay such today. I'd still leave if he asked.

Also thinking back, the whole issue may have been I was on railroad property. I assume, since the roads are next to the track, that road to road is railroad property. While I was on the sidewalk across the tracks, I did stand there for a few minutes (maybe 2-3) since I was waiting for traffic but also looking at the starting up work. He may have just wanted to emphasize that while they had the main line blocked (little blue signs out) that was not a safe place.

I want to emphasize, I never felt threated, in fact, he drove off before I could respond. It was all just bizarre. Perhaps because I think I've only once before interacted with a railroad employee while rail fanning.

 

Maybe they thought you were a lawyer ;~)

Injured in a railroad accident? Call the law offices of Dewy, Cheatem and Howe.

For what it's worth. I heard second hand a bit of a story about NS buying the film cassette out of a video camera after a railfan filmed a minor derailment.

Could be a BS story. Maybe not...

I got dirty looks from a CSX M of W crew while photographing them re-railing a rail tamper.
they never asked me to stop or leave but if looks could kill...

 

I have had totally different and very pleasant experiences with CSX MOW crews.

For example, about 5 years ago a crew was welding a short rail section that had been inserted to repair a broken rail. I was photographing both welds from start to finish with the intention of publishing a photo essay for the TB More Than Trains Forum. I had first chatted with the foreman and he had no problem with what I was doing as long as I stayed more than 20 feet away from the work (I have a zoom lens that allows this).

When they had finished and were cleaning up, I moved in to take close-ups of the finished welds. At this point the foreman came over and suggested that I photograph "that weld over there. He did a much better job grinding, and it's a prettier weld."

I think part of the reason for this relaxed attitude by MOW crews is that the Mississippi Coast would be considered rural without all the problems associated with most metropolitan areas around the country. I say "rural" because, although the Coast is the second largest metropolitan area in Mississippi, it only has about 150,000 people spread across three coastal counties on the Gulf of Mexico. So we don't get the high incidence of trespassers and trouble-makers usually associated with high density metropolitan areas.

 

In the long run you can always just keep in mind that as long as you are on public property, you are all in the public domain - and they have no legal hold over you in the public domain. What I have done is this - I have found some nice locations to shoot (maybe better to say photograph) from that are private property. I then get permission from the owners of the business and leave them a card with my name and phone numbers. Then if I am challenged, I can easily state that I have permission to be where I am, doing what I am doing. Then I can ask if they have permission to be on the property...
I have had to do this a couple times over the years. For the most part, most of the crews around here are nice guys - most don't care one way or the other. Always be friendly and don't loose your cool.

My major irritation is when non-railroad people try to challenge me - and I have had a few instances of this happening over the years. I had the head of security for a power plant come out to a public road where I was taking pics of a coal train - he threatened to take my cameras. I just matter of fact told him that since we were on public property, that I would consider him touching or taking any of my equipment a criminal act and would respond appropriately. But I was polite! I then offered to call the local sheriff's office to have them give him clarification...

I always offer them my card with my phone numbers and a copy of a flyer that explains the photographer's rights - you can can get a copy here:
Bert P. Krages Attorney at Law Photographer's Rights Page

 

Ahhh the joker relized after all the conversation and picture taken that his bosses policy was for him to keep you away from the get-go and not giving out info, he was just trying to cover his ass since he made a blunnder by letting you be there in the first place and it was weighing heavy on him and was going to hope nothing came from your picture taken so he later wouldn't wind up having to explain himself to his superiors. Hey look UPS trucks in an accident are fair game when it comes to a photo opp But watch those supervisors scramble to cover up the logo and intimidate you from taking pictures it's their policy. Ever see one being towed with tape hiding the logo?? Stand your ground while on public access I don't like to be intimidated.

 

Having slept on it, I think people are mainly right, he realized he may have been overly friendly / encouraging and this was his way of setting the record straight. Since he was already driving away he clearly wasn't really trying to run me off or be confrontational about it. Since he said "I don't want you video taping this" I think liability may have had something to do with it. A locomotive in the air on two side booms with people working more or less under it; imagine it falling on someone and that being on the evening news. A lot different for the company than a picture of a locomotive sitting on the tracks normally just with a bad wheel.


Another thing that hit my mind this morning. While it's an NS track and crew, the locomotive with the problem was a BNSF run through. So if you just look at the pictures you would think it's a BNSF derailment. Perhaps that helped him be ok with it at first, and then he realized he may not want to encourage me to come back and get an NS locomotive in distress some other day.

Anyway, later today I'll try and post the pictures and video.

 

the D11 crew here are nice they took me and my dad on 2 cab rides the first was switching in the yard the second was to back the D&Hs down to park them 7312 and 7303 the first was a CP SD40-2

 

and you wouldnt want to stick around to see the loco fall on someone too right

 

Yeah, because smarting off to railroad employees is a good way to build rapport for future railfanning opportunities. :tb-rolleyes:

You know, sometimes even if you are on public property, and you are well within in your rights, it doesn't hurt to say "okay no problem" like the original poster and just get your shot the next time.

By the way Route66, please tell me you don't seriously think the NS employee was trying to intimidate Leo. I'd hardly call the reminder as he drove away "intimidation."

Now let's hear someone say "It's our right, if we honor their request this time, it will all go to hell in a handbasket."

 

That was part of my thinking, if he is the "Head Cheese" around these parts I'd rather him like me, or at least not dislike me if I run into him again.

But the real deciding factors for me was that it was going to be hard to get a good view of the work going on, no real good camera angle, and the ones that sorta would have worked had the sun the wrong way. Plus, I had other things to do. I drove back by 3 hours later and they were done, just starting to put the equipment away. I only had 50 minutes of film and one battery. It just didn't work.

 

I'm sure if some of you had a camera pointed at you watching every single move you made at work you would be a little nervous. There have been videos posted on the internet that have actually caused crews to get charged after an official looks at them. There are so many rules to follow that one person simply cannot remember all of them when trying to get something done. One little slip up can cost a railroader his/her job.

 

"He rolled down his window, looked at me and said "I don't want you shooting video of this, and don't forget to stay off RR property"

I don't no Norm I wasn't there so I don't really no how his words sounded, but why his change of attitude all of a sudden?, I would have gone right back and filmed it and seen what actions he was going to take!! If it was understood that I could take stills but he would rather I not make a video,that would be another story and I would have done as asked. Anyhow if I can shoot it from public property via a lens than he needs to move a vehicle in front of the scene to block public view.

 

Tim and all,
I once had a situation where I was on a public sidewalk on a bridge over some steel mill property in Birmingham Alabama. The train crew of the loco my friend and I were trying to shoot pulled under the bridge and called the steel mills security people. Well, this security guy came up all ready to send us to jail. Told us he had called the cops and everything. The cops showed up and talked to us for a few minutes after which, the cops told the security guy that at this point, they could not remove us from the sidewalk. We were all happy with that but then the cop turned around and told us that the city had a no loitering law and that if we were to stay there more than 30 minutes, we could be taken in for loitering. Then he said that since he had only been there 10 minutes, that he would leave and come back by in about 20 minutes to make sure we had moved on. The security guy was fuming and wanted to argue with the cop but the cop just got in his car and drove off. Then the security guard got on the radio and told the engine crew that they should remain parked under the bridge for at least 20 more minutes. We waited about 18 minutes on the bridge with the security guy and then left. As we were pulling out from where we parked, the cop who had talked to us went driving by so he really came back to see if we left. Seems crazy that a crew would stop work for that long just to avoid a photo but it happened. I went back there several times after that but never caught that loco out working and now that mill is closed. Guess you win some and you lose some.

 

Sounds to me like the crew had a ready made reason to take a 20 minute break. "Hey boss, we were just doing what Security told us to do..."
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