Sorry, I forgot my role as mindless automatron I didn't realize "such comments" as voicing a different opinion would ruin the discussion. My comment was perfectly civil, unless speaking one's mind is considered uncivil. E-8 was eager to describe how he would handle the situation, so I answered with the same tone he claims he would have used if in the original poster's position. But anyhoo, since people are beginning to feel uncomfortable, I'll bow out of the thread so the discussion and chest thumping can continue.
Back to the original topic... Keep in mind that these are humans, and they come in all varieties. That guy you were talking to may have just been a jerk. There's also this paranoia going around that people taking photos may be involved in terrorism. I heard that from a chemical company rep at a public forum here in Portland. He was telling me that "middle eastern looking people" had been seen taking photos. I find this kind of misguided, and, having a middle eastern looking wife (her dad was from Lebanon) I offered to him that I go invite my wife of Lebanese ancestry and her camera and have him tell her to that to her face. Leo, don't let yourself get too rattled about this sort of thing. People act in both rational and irrational ways, and just because you were taking video doesn't mean you were doing anything wrong. If you were off railroad property you should be fine. Just get video somewhere else. Adam
I wasn't "eager" and I'm not "chest-thumping." I simply stated what I would do. You don't know me so you don't have any basis to make judgments on what I would or would not do. This member posted that he was standing on public property taking photos/video of an event near him. He has every right to do that. According to him, someone without the authority to intervene in his activities told him not to do what he was doing. I am not someone that is looking for confrontation but I am not someone that backs down. If I was within my right to do what I was doing, I would keep doing it and if this guy told me "he didn't want me doing it" I would have told him directly that I didn't much care what he wanted whether that was a diplomatic response or not. Maybe my response is somewhat pointed because I deal with this kind of stuff on a regular basis. I've worked in broadcasting for over 25 years and although the gathering of news is not something that I am involved with on a day-to-day basis at this point, I have worked in that end of the business during my career and there have been many times that someone tried to run me off or tell me what I would or would not do. Presently, I read four newscasts on the radio every morning. I would not even try to tell all of the weird stories about things that have happened and do happen on a fairly regular basis (in relation to this) but just within the last few months two incidents come to mind that remind me of this incident. In one, I read a news story (prepared by our local news director) and a telephone caller told me that if I read it again, we would hear from his lawyer. Not a problem at all. We never heard from a lawyer and the story ran the rest of the day. In a more extreme case, a few weeks ago I read a local story about several individuals being in trouble following an incident. After reading it the phone rang and a person told me, "If I hear my name on the radio again I'll be down there to shut you up." Well, he heard it again and he did nothing. We also publish local news on our website and it is archived. There is a fairly regular drumbeat of people that "demand" that we remove their name or the name of a family member from our website. Back to this issue, this railroad employee was not going to, and had no way of enforcing his desire upon this member not to photograph his actions. If he tried, he would have lost his job and been subject to a civil suit. If a person wants to be diplomatic then he would abide by this person's wishes. I guess in this situation, I would not have been diplomatic - but that's just me. It's not "chest-thumping." It's simply a choice of whether ot not to give up my right to do what I want to do. If this member was on railroad property or was interfering with the activities that were going on that is one thing. But, if he was standing on public property and taking photos or video of what he saw going on around him, then this person does not have the right to tell him he doesn't "want him" doing that. Charlie
I am enjoying this thread immensely!!! I applaud those who are taking the stand to continue to go about their normal activities, such as railfanning, without being bullied into believing we have to "sneak" photos in the public domain, or stop our activity all together. Heaven knows this goes back to the now old (but not untrue) sayings that part of a terrorist's goals are to achieve modification of our behavior - and to make us afraid to go about our lives as we have. It might also be getting old to say that a huge part of what contributes to the public safety is the free citizen exercising his rights to take photos and videos in the public domain. I think we all know of cases where crimes were solved in part by what a citizen caught on tape - and maybe even cases where civil rights were being violated by those entrusted with public safety. I also realize that some are not as confident as I might be about this issue - or even sure what the rules and laws are regarding some situations. I don't criticize those who choose to shut off the camera and leave if asked. Those that have been around me know that I am the guy who steps up and challenges the challengers - but I do it politely and with respect. I am the guy that always offers identification - and I ask for identification - and always ask by whose authority they are acting, and I ask for specific laws or ordinances that they think I must abide by. Thought that just for fun I'd throw this old post of mine in the "fray": The CSX police I have talked to have been professional, and very understanding about us (railfans). The only problem I have ever had has been with well meaning CSX employees - maintenance crews mainly - who just are doing what they have been told. On the other hand there are some real knuckle-brain people out there, such as the encounter I had with an "official" from Heinz (I won't use the Heinz name to avoid embarrassing them) who approached me on private property a few years ago while I was video taping. The individual in question stated that I had to shut my camera off, as I was not allowed to video tape the train approaching the Heinz Pickle Factory in Holland Michigan (again, I won't mention the Heinz name). I had to remind this fellow that I was on private property that I had permission to be on, video taping a CSX train that was passing through Kolen Park - a public park, and that I did not have to shut off my camera because it was within my right in public domain to do what I was doing. I did tell him that I wasn't the slightest bit interested in what Heinz did - maybe he was afraid that I might be documenting illegal "guest" workers that it is rumored locally that they use - but I won't mention the Heinz name in case the rumors are false - which I trust they are... :tb-biggrin:
Being a former railroad signalman with a shortline that had some ancient equipment that attracted foamers with cameras I always thought it funny to see all those pictures being taken. Well, Ive taken a few in my day. There are some real !@#%$s out there no matter where you are or what you do. I was just telling a co-worker how I got kicked out of a dentist office once. But thats a different topic.*L*
Well.....It was the end of a hot summer day.Had to meet the wife and daughter at the dentist office to see about a procedure my daughter needed. I was really hot and tired and all I needed to know was what it was going to cost as I didnt have insurance and wasnt sure if I could afford it. An assistant took us to a room and started a powerpoint show describing the procedure in detail. I really didnt need to know all the detail just what it cost. After about five minutes I asked the assistant if I could just find out the cost. She ignored me and continued. This happened maybe three times over the next fifteen minutes. Finally she stopped the powerpoint and told me she didnt have to put up with this and ordered us out of the office. Needless to say the proceeder wasnt done there.
Don't leave us hanging....How much did the darn procedure cost? On the topic, I've been on both sides; as a fire photographer for a while and while working for EMS in a major city for 27 years before being comped out. I can't count the number of times I've been shown in one of the local papers on been on the TV news, (usually doing something wrong:tb-biggrin, or the number of times I've told police that I have a perfect right to photograph certain fire scenes. In both cases "firm" politeness usually works, although sometimes firmness needs to be coupled with "very" or "strong". As long as everything is legal and proper, and that you know the limits,there should be no problem. Dave.
