While working on N Scale T-TRAK, I was asked if a similar thing existed for Z scale. It does...sort of. Using the instructions on http://ttrak.org, I could not make two of the most useful modules...the INSIDE CORNER and the TEE JUNCTION. The reason is the 330mm length of the basic SINGLE WIDE is just too long. So I cut it back to 220mm and viola. A basic loop will fit on a 24" wide table. There seems to be lots of space for scenery. You can get to the power connections between the STRAIGHT modules. The minimum radius is 195mm. You can even add a third track on the inside and keep the minimum radius at 195mm. The only odd dimension if the 245mm straight track in the TEE JUNCTION. Having never used Rokuhan track, I don't even know if you can cut their flex track. If you zoom in on the drawings, you will even see the 2mm gap between modules.
The Rokuhan flex track is designed to be flexible but I do not know what it's minimum radius is but the road bed is sectional so it is designed to be shortened and the initial length is now 330mm. There are two radii that will fit inside the 195mm radius and still be useful and they are the 170mm and the 145mm radius coming in the future are two larger radii 245mm and 270mm and these will be in 30 degree increments. There are smaller radii but I have found that the R170 is the smallest that everything seems to run on without problems.R145mm is not good for cars longer than 50ft or engines with more than class B trucks so no SD's etc.especially if they have pilot mounted couplers. The GPs even with pilot mounted couplers run fine and 40 ft or shorter cars are fine on this smaller radius. I n my experience with these T-track modules you need to standardize on a length of straight track to join modules across the joints. This is because trying to connect curved track across a joint is not always possible if the measurements of the modules and the placement of the track ends are not are not spot on With our smaller radii There is not room to play with to make the connection. You have three choices from Rokuhan 55 and 110mm and 220mm long straights. So we should be developing our own module sizes based on the track we have available now from Rokuhan or Micro Trains and they can be different for the two different makes of road bed track and we can do on to even propose an standard 110mm straight interface piece that has Micro trains at one end and Rokuhan at the other so we can use modules with either type of roadbed track on them and be able to join them together.
There is an already very well functioning Z-scale modular track system called Z-bend Track. Here is the link to the Standards. It's a much more accepted system, there are hundreds of modules nationwide, your module(s) can part of large, colorful high quality layouts at various shows and group events. In less than five weeks, the National Train Show in Sacramento Ca kicks in with a Z-bend track modular layout in size and quality never seen before in any scale. My humble prediction, T-Trak in Z-scale is a dead end street.
I understand the need for standards, but the only standard I've seen does not support an INSIDE CORNER or a TEE JUNCCTION. Am I missing something obvious? Are there more than one standard? I know my drawings are non-standard. I'm able to build N scale T-TRAK modules very accurately. The material is cut on a CNC router to about 0.005 inch. Of course, since it's wood, it changes dimensions within minutes. But I'm pretty happy with +-0.02 inch when all is done. I agree that if you can't get the spacing between tracks spot on, you will have problems....but that's why we do this stuff in miniature. Similar to N-scale T-TRAK, the track extends past the edges of the modules by 1mm on each side to account for module dimension errors. Each module has to be accurate, square and plumb to +-1mm. +-0.5mm is better. The flex track is actually used as a straight piece. I just figured it would be the easiest to shorten from 330mm to 245mm. There is always one odd piece. So if everything runs OK on 170mm radius, then the 195 minimum radius should be just fine and a 3-track mainline is possible. It's an individual thing. I prefer scenery to trackage most of the time, but kids just want to see lots and lots of trains running at the same time. I'm not understanding about using curves at the module boundary. Is the Rohukan track weak?
If the Tee Junction is the only objection to Z-Bend Track modules, there is a simple and very well functioning solution. Make the Tee Junction module longer, connect the loops with straight sections, so you can have the "missing" inner loops from a Z-Bend Track module. There are a lot more sophisticated, more realistic junctions were built within the Z-Bend Track modular standards. Sign up to the ZoCal : The Southern California Z Scale ModelerZ forum and take a look of the album "2011 Ontario Big Train Show".
Gents, I follow the N Scale T-TRAK group and may eventually switch my N scale 3'x6' layout (that's in storage) to N Scale T-TRAK one of these days. However I have been contemplating using a modified T-TRAK to create a Z scale T-TRAK module (thinner in width than the N scale version). I personally think that cely is on to something. Yes there is the Z-bend Track US standard module and also several European standard module versions but I always thought that the Z-bend Track modules are too large, too much scenery to fill up, too big to transport, too heavy, that wouldn't it be fun to have a Z scale version of the N Scale T-TRAK small enough that you could build, lay track, add scenery and complete it in a day or two? I think we need to be open minded about this, heck if we as Zheads weren't open minded about things Z scale wouldn't have gotten anywhere. I'm all for a Z scale T-TRAK module, just make it thinner in width than the N scale version. Where do I buy one? John Bartolotto
Why thinner? There is not much there to begin with. The N scale T-TRAK gang seems to be gravitating to larger than standard modules so they can fit more scenery in. Just think of all the stuff you can get on a standard size module. It can't take that much longer to scenic 12 to 24 more square inches.
Hi Cely, Welcome to Trainboard's Z forum. Are you part of Larry Donsbach's T-Trak Z club in Texas? Larry had his T-Trak Z modules setup in Anahiem at the 2008 NTS.
First, the 270mm depth was chosen by me and is totally arbitrary. I like lots of scenery. If there is another depth that would be more popular, let me know. Thats kind of where I'm going. I have a good friend who is a cabinet maker and he can cut the top plates on a $200k CNC router. You can get an entire layout out of one 4'x8' sheet of 1/4" MDF or 6mm Russian Baltic Birch. The cost would be something around $50 for all the plates you can fit on a 4'x8' sheet plus shipping. He's already told me he doesn't have time to make custom stuff, but if I came up with a set of standard sized plates, he might (and I accentuate) might accept orders. What would make him happiest is if we can come up with a standard order that contains a few of these, and a few of those and he only has to keep one CNC program on hand. I'm running interference because he cuts my stuff, and I don't want to make him mad. Remember, he's a busy cabinet maker first and train guy second. And I still can't find a T-TRAK Z drawing for an INSIDE CORNER of a TEE JUNCTION. I'm beginning to believe they don't exist and if they don't, I know why T-TRAK Z is not as popular as T-TRAK N.
If you prefer smaller, break up the Z-Bend Track modules to 12" or even 8" wide pieces. They can be as small as 8" w x 12" L, full with details. Two of them makes a nice connection between larger modules. Nothing beats Z-Bend Track module standard's flexibility, nothing. The only limit is lack of imagination.
Actually at ZoCal we play with 12" wide various shape modules assembled as straight, "T" and "X" modules for a while. First time they were part of the layout at the 2008 Anaheim NTS. The original idea is spreading like weed, this year we will see at least two dozens of them assembled in various shapes.
I think that we can combine some aspects of Zbend with Ttrack for Z. the width of the straight sections really is not greatly important but the dimensions that are are how many track across 1 or two the spacing which is et by track manufacturers as 25mm and the radii you want to use on a 90 degree corner. and you have a choice of several. 195 and 220, 145 and 170, and 245 and 270. The next critical point is how fare i the end of track from the face of the side of the module I think you have two choices if you user Rokuhan or one if you use Micro Trains. 55mm if you use Micro trains 110m straight as your connection between modules and half that if your use Rokuhan 55mm straight as your connection between modules. The next measurement is the set back for the track from the front of the module and this is pretty well defined in what you chooses for your largest radius. If you use 220mm curve as your largest curve and 25mm as your set back then then 245mm is the length of your width foryour 90 degree corner245mm is 9 and 5/8 ths I think in imperial measurements your corners so your straight sections can be less than this. Next you have to consider your standard table widtsh are 30 inches usuallyand T-track is usually set up on tables this is what makes it attractive and transportable in small cars. so another two bits worth.
Ntrak does something simlare as your can buy kits for the basics to build a T-track module or mutiples of them.
I am about 80 miles away, but that is the club I want to join. I just met Larry today via email and will see him this weekend at the club. I'm looking forward to learning more about Z. I just figured if T-TRAK N was fun, wouldn't T-TRAK Z also be fun. I guess not. It's more for the guy way out in the country who sees the club 4 times a year. My entire layout has to store in a small corner of my closet. That is, nothing big and nothing permanent. I also didn't realize that Rohukan just started distributing in the US in May.
Wow, so many messages. Yes I know about T-TRAK N module kits both in the US and Australia. But nothing about T-TRAK Z modules or kits. I've thought about providing kits (or at least the precision cut parts of kits) since I can get a sheet of plywood routed so accutately and so inexpensively. I've also been toying with foam-on-plank. I like my trains to run through rolling hills. I even built a hot-wire-foam cutter that is accurate enough for T-TRAK N. I don't know if it's accurate enough for T-TRAK Z yet. What's the next smaller scale? I should probably pester them while I'm at it. I'm not very good at this messaging stuff. I hope you all can figure out what response goes with what question.
I think you will find that there are a few of us who think T-track_Z would be fun and for those of us with limited spece and small cars it could really produce some fine stuff. Tthe idea of pre cut pieces in a kit sounds great and with foam already on top would be fantastic for getting away from the flat top.
While there are a LOT of Z-Bend Track modules and a relative standard, there are others, even in the US. The Washington group uses a narrow module, with tracks down the middle. But, that is not a hard rule, just what you need for others to connect. You could make the track deviate from the center to the edge, joining with your own and then deviating back to the center for that standard. Z-Mod in Norway uses a 40cm deep module, with the 2 mainline tracks near the front edge, much like Z-Bend track (only we also do it on the other side of the module). http://www.zmod.no/zmod-standard/Zmod-standard-english.htm http://www.rosetown.ch/News/ZMOD.htm (look down about 10 pix for clarity) http://www.platelayer.com/mj/zmod/zmod_modul_kurve_gruppe3.jpg (if this link does not work, see this and scroll down to the obvious track plan): http://www.platelayer.com/mj/zmod/zmod.asp Here is a good example of moving from one side of their Zmod module to the other. See photo 14 and 15 in the link (that's me with the beer). http://www.zmod.no/Treff-Moter/Z-Skala-treff-18-19april2009/Trainshow-19042009/pages/HPIM8649.htm The "OWL Division" (Ostwestfalen-Lippe) in Germany uses a sorta standard single track. But again, one can deviate the track location on their own modules, returning back to the 'standard' to connect with others: http://www.southwest-division.de/15.html Since there is not T-Track standard yet, if you made your modules 12" (304.8mm), then you can butt them back to back and use them easily with the very popular Z-Bend Track standard guys. 300mm is of course less than the 400 but still plenty to create scenes, espicially like the OWL division. I reall enjoyed visiting that layout 2 years ago. The simplicity of the single mainline was perfect for rural scenes. Oh, the next track size down is T scale, 1:450 or about half of Z: http://www.t-gauge.net/index.htm .
Thanks Garth, The T-TRAK web site documents the N variant very well. It's not really a standard, but it has withstood the test of time and I hate to deviate from it. The T-TRAK web site didn't do a good job on the Z variant. The basic Single Wide is specified at 330mm. Thats the reason there Inside Corner and Tee Junction could not be designed. So I changed the width of a Single Wide to 220mm. A basic T-TRAK loop closure error for an "L" shaped layout is determined by the following equation: 2 * Single Wide Dimension - Max Radius - Min Radius If the answer is 0, the loop closes perfectly. If the number is positive, then a straight track has to be inserted into the middle of the Inside Loop. If the number is negative, then a straight track has to be inserted into the middle of the Outside Loop. In this case, 2 * 220mm - 195mm - 245mm = 0 and the loop closes perfectly. So I'm hesitant to make the standard module width 304.8mm. Here is a picture of my T-TRAK N foam-on-plank work. I'm taking these to SANTRAK next Saturday for a peer review. Nothing like having real people chew on your work. The plank is 1/4" MDF. The foam is 2" thick DOW Scoreboard. It's a 25 PSI foam. The adjusting hardware is a 10x24 Propell T-nut installed with Gorilla glue. I couldn't find a 1/4x20 Propell T-nut that was short enough to be used in 1/4 MDF. I built my own hot-wire-foam cutter to cut the foam flush with the edge of the module. I like the how well it cuts this foam.
