If I followed the report correctly, an older parallel tunnel? Another problem which would be a bystanders excuse for keeping the route permanently closed. Even though may not be the present day tunnel, some fools will lay and egg as they panic. Bummer! :uhoh: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/giant-sinkhole-colorado-165704967.html
This being in my backyard I am watching to see what CDOT / UP decide to do but I would bet the older tunnel will get Daylighted and a Bridge will get built. I know CDOT is looking at various alternatives but just filling in the old tunnel will likely not be a possibility. The two tunnels are fairly close to each other... :sad:
In the comments thereafter, it was obvious the public is simply railroad stupid. No understanding this is private property, owned by the Union Pacific RR. And one genius suggested collapsing the whole thing. As if that is possible, without damaging the active side.
I could not finish reading the comments. What a bunch of idiots. Also, the bore that collapsed it the pre-ww2 route. Not the current TP ROW. Does UP still own this property? Also, there is no active side of TP in this area. So that's not really a big deal. Nobody quite knows why UP hasn't refiled for abandonment on this line.
Maybe Utterly Pathetic hasn't filed for abandonment because they would be afraid of BuNSniFf maybe trying to get their hands on it. Just a thought.
In February I hiked through the newer tunnel. It was still pretty frozen up solid, the floor of the tunnel covered with ice.
Why would BNSF want the Tennessee Pass route? What possible reason? They already have trackage rights over Moffat and if they got TP, they'd still have to use UP to get anywhere past Dotsero. What purpose would it serve?
Not sure why UP has not ripped up the rail. Maybe it is "rail banked" for later salvage? While cross country skiing along the right of way I found a number of places where the rails are burried under rock slides.
I would think UP might still own the old bore. If someone has an updated Right-of-Way blueprint, it will likely show there. But why they are holding on to Tennessee Pass is a bit curious. There is a reason somewhere in the mix. If they are considering dumping it, an incident such as this could be the prompting needed.
As uch as the railfan community would love to see TP resurrected, it simply makes no sense. With the parallel Moffat, the WY racetrack further north, and the Sunset Route down south, Unlimited Parking has plenty of options. From an operational standpoint, the Denver-SLC corridor is 175 miles shorter via the Moffat, unless significant Kansas City-SLC traffic is found, it is unlikely the route would be needed. Until the WY and Sunset route reach max capacity, and the Moffat reaches capacity, reopening TP isn't cost-effective (and you know the bean counters that make the decisions would take note of this). Additionally, the 3% grade on the west slope prsents significant challenges. The grade takes a toll on equipment wear/tear, the rails and ROW takes a beating, the fuel cost skyrockets due to multiple DPU sets being required to move tonnage. Breaking trains in half to ascend the summit takes additional time. Another crew district requires more money. Were manned helper used, that creates even more personnel costs. As much as it hurts to say, TP has a snowball's chance in Phoenix to be reopened. It's possible, but a number of things need to happen in order to offset the operational and financial difficulties of operating this line. It would take a perfect storm of multiple lines nearing capacity, significant new traffic in the KC-SLC corridor, and a large investment of time materiel and funds to bring the derelict ROW back up to Class I standards. One last note--with TP having last run in '97, how many folks with TP experience are still in train service? Many of the old heads that knew the line will likely have retired by now. Reopening such a challenging line will require a lot of that experience brought back, and some of it might be unobtanium.
CDOT: US 24 Tennessee Pass “Sinkhole” Update July 12, 2012 - Northwestern Colorado/CDOT Region 3 - The Colorado Department of Transportation (CDOT) continues to keep US 24 closed indefinitely in both directions to all traffic, including bicyclists, north of Leadville at mile marker 165 near the top of Tennessee Pass after a hole opened up on the southbound shoulder of the highway on Monday. Earlier this week, the hole was referred to as a sinkhole, which is technically incorrect since the cause of the hole is soil giving way above an abandoned railroad tunnel. CDOT crews finished taking core (soil) samples in the area and have been analyzing the samples in order to put together repair options. Once the options have been evaluated and a solution has been determined, CDOT will move forward with soliciting bids to get a contractor hired so repairs can begin. All motorists, including those who live locally, must continue to use State Highway 91 as a detour. The closure point is at mile marker 165, so access to local businesses and roadways remains possible. Travelers hoping to visit Camp Hale, which is just south of Red Cliff, will be able to do so. CDOT continues to work with state historians and is referencing its archives to build a full history of the tunnel and roadway.
How would they route kc traffic? The MP line at Pueblo was severed by UP years ago. So they'd have to route down the joint line? But the joint line is at capacity already or nearly so. Which also makes TP a bad choice for capacity increases to/from Denver If the pueblo mp line was still there, then you might have a compelling railroad. From what I understand, The Borg filed for abandonment in the 90s and the state was fine with it, but the STB required them to prove that all the trains could be handled by existing capacity. Well, they did that years ago, but never went back to the stb.
Which brings us back to the question of 'why' was this transaction incomplete? It seems much too large of a property or project, to have been simply a dropping of the ball. There would on the surface seem to be something else holding it in place. Land value? Natural resources? An unknown future plan? Effect upon the books/for taxation (write off) purposes? BNSF poured tens of millions into reopening Stampede Pass in the 1990s. (A route of much limitation.) It was a huge mess up there. So it can be done. Yes, I do understand TP would cost more. But UP easily has that ability, if they would ever desire it done. As for crews, railroads have been known to bring in retirees as consultants or as private contractors in some situations. So that could still likely be easily covered, if nobody is still actively working today.
I don't think there would be enough traffic generated from the Climax molybdenum mine if/when they ever get that opperation going again. Would be easier to head the other way down the Royal Gorge IMHO.
Side Comment: Climax has been operational since May 10th (http://www.climaxmolybdenum.com/News/pdfs/051012.pdf)
There are future considerations to keep in mind when you own a railroad line through what seems desolate territory. How will tomorrow's volume of freight traffic influence routing. What kind of freight traffic can be generated by local business or mining interests. The ones that mean jobs for Americans. They haven't even begun to pull out of those mountains the ore with an eye on coal, worth mining. Future use as a by pass or alternate routing from the south east to the north west in order to by pass Denver, the single tracked Moffat Tunnel and/or busy main over Sherman Hill. Just my opinion but UP would be fools to let go of the Tennesse Pass. They could lease it out and so forth but hang onto it as in don't abandon the right of way. Just a reminder but SP used it to compete with UP and at a substantial loose to the UP. Handing it over to the BNSF wouldn't be advised. As far as the tunnel the gumbies are yelling about..it's not their problem...stay out of it. UP will solve the problem as it's is just that, their problem. Just my two cents.
SP did not compete with UP at a profit here. SP and Rio Grande Sold their services on TP and Moffat as a through route at a discounted rate. Again, UP tore up the MP line to KC at Pueblo. About the only thing keeping the line alive MIGHT be potential further mining. That's all I can think. This was discussed on another website some months back with people very familiar with the area. The moly mine would not produce enough carloads to justify a flatland railroad much less TP. The odds that it will ever be through route though are slim. It is out of the way. Stampede Pass afterall begins and ends with quite logical connections to compelling markets. TP does not. Unless there's an expansion of the Joint line to allow traffic flow to/from the southeast from/to SLC. Any point west of SLC is presumably easier handled on the Sunset for UP or the Transcon for BNSF. I suppose, If suddenly there was a compelling traffic SLC to Albuquerque, then BNSF might be interested. Routing UP to TP, TP to Pueblo, BNSF to La Junta and then Raton to Albuquerque. There's a service that would cause a lot of excitement in the railfan community. I doubt it would ever happen, but man, there would be excited railfans. One thing to note is, I believe that BNSF has trackage rights over TP. I know they have rights over Moffat. In fact, they have rights over Moffat and the former SP all the way down to the Bay. AND they also have rights over the entirety of the Western Pacific. I guess that's how UP got out of having to give one of these routes up. (see my Modeling thread on my protolance ideas. )
I can't remeber the figure that BNSF poured into Stampede, but I want to say it was something like $65 million, just into rebuilding the tunnel, which when it was done still can NOT handle double stacks. Here is a more interesting part about Stampede, BNSF spent just as much rehabilitating the tunnel in 1996 as it would have cost MILW to rebuild the ENTIRE PCE mainline in 1979. IMHO, as much as I am a NP guy, I think that the more viable option for BNSF at that time would have been to take a SERIOUS look into relaying the rail over Snoqualmie, but that is a WHOLE different discusion about why, in the first place the ripped the rail out in 1985.
Prior to the economic downturn, wasn't the Governor of Washington making noise about reopening Snoqualmie? As for Stampede, from what I understand, BNSF is just getting going on their new Iron Triangle plan which is a kinda sorta not quite directional running plan. Should be in fully swing come the full on grain rush with Empties heading back on Stampede.
I dont recall if our illustrious Gov was making noise about Snoqualmie or not. Yes the triangle plan that BNSF has implemented is now in play and not quite in full swing as I understand it. It will be interesting to see how this all plans out. But my understanding of the triangle is that a crew leaves Auburn and some water headed bean counter thinks that a crew will make it all the way to Pasco before they run out of hours. I dont see this happening, but it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
