Seems that railroading has changed considerably since I retired in 1983. What with remote controlled engines, college graduate officials with no practical experience, plus strict application of company rules, it's no wonder every siding, on the UP, is full of rolling stock. I voiced my thoughts to some current operating employees that perhaps the company should bring back some of us old heads to show them how to get trains over the road. I was told that I wouldn't last a day. You just don't bend the rules anymore, like we did.....but we got the job done!
It's interesting to read this. In fact, am glad to see it stated. I grew up in a family with a lot of railroad history. Have most of the time been around railroaders. Worked in the RR industry. But never for a RR. And have said the same of today's companies myself. As have many I know who did work in the industry. Going way up the ladder into top management. If I can see this fact, looking in from the outside, there is obviously an enormous problem within. Boxcab E50
================================= That is a fairly subjective statement, but with more than a large degree of credibility. The thing is these days, with smaller crew sizes, it is probably a lot easier to "bend the rules" and not be observed, so a lot of rule bending goes unnoticed until a mishap occurs. I will say, unequivocably, that there is not a single operating department railroad who has NOT broken a rule or rules in the performance of his or her duties. I worked with a pair of brothers who were rule book freaks. The more diligent of the two would read his rule book during slack periods when he was not pounding the lead. Even during "beans" he would crack the book! Well, half of one of his feet was amputated by a railroad car wheel passing over it. He was in a position that he knew he was not supposed to be. He will never return to service. One of the biggest problems today is our litigation-happy society. The railroads are paranoid about being sued by injured railroaders or careless trespassers. The courts are awarding enormously high damages to plaintiffs. I am not suggesting that the carriers shouldn't pay for their transgressions when it is obviously their fault, but apathetic and sometimes hostile juries will award outrageous damages just to "teach the carriers a lesson" . Some school of ethics there!!! One thing that I observed during my rather brief career as a railroader(I am also a retired hogger) is that so many of the "old heads" have a pat "cop-out" to almost any and all complaints or grievances that newer people have. The old heads just reply, "well we had to do it, so can you". Sorry but that pig will never fly. When there were 4 or 5 members of a road train or switch crew, if somebody was hung-over or having a bad day, there was always someone else who could take up the slack. A new guy was never alone, he always had a shadow. With a 2 man road crew or 3 man switch crew you run the risk of having one or both members having less than 5 years railroad experience. While there is a great deal of "classroom training" and obsessive emphasis on following the rule book, there is NOTHING that will ever replace good ole experience. Case in point... I transferred to Galesburg when things slowed down here in Chicago. I was just one or two turns away from being cut off. As I had a mortgage and college tuitions to pay, I didn't feel this to be a viable option. Myself and about 20 others wound up working out of Galesburg for a while. I was given one familiarization trip on the Santa Fe side of the railroad and one on the Burlington side(I was already qualified on about 1/3 of that route) and then in so many words, I was told to mark up and go to work. Galesburg has trains going in all four directions. Even though I was on the Galesburg East conductors extra board, I was still ordered to go anywhere they wanted me to. Almost every time I was ordered I found myself working a new piece of railroad. I would tell every hogger my story and said that if they wanted to mark off or have me replaced, I wouldn't be upset. A couple of times I found myself working with engineers who had never seen the piece of railroad we were on at the time. Howzat for safety awareness? Who would have been culpable? You can make the case for either or both sides. Fortunately I made it through that ordeal unscathed! I took early retirement(and a beating on my RR retirement too!) because I simply did not want to put up with the multi-faceted safety ethic of the railroad industry. If I didn't have a trainmaster watching me from the weeds, there would be an FRA examiner riding in the cab. Out of any given four years, I would have a major requalification exam(conductor & engineer)any one of which a failure would cause me to lose my job(and maybe my pension). This also did not include mandatory check rides by the R.F.E.(or a simulator trip). I miss being on or near trains,but I dont miss the work or the hours or the weather or the damned rulebook. I could go on forever but I wont bore the board any more than I have. If you care to chat with me as another retired rail, we can do this back-channel, my email is in my profile. Good luck to you and hope you are enjoying your retirement as much as I enjoy mine. Charlie
I need to clarify a point on my above statement. I meant to say that in any four year period, I would have a major exam in AT LEAST three of them, failure of which could result in termination of employment. Not that I am a poor learner or student, but a failing grade on most exams is any score below 90% . The most liberal exam(a biennial)had a passing score of 80% If one is ill or tired or just plain "having a bad day", the likelyhood of getting a bad score is quite high. True, we are given a second chance, but the best thing is to avoid having to do that. The simulator trips are the most difficult to pass. They are basically a computer game and as one ages, one is not as nimble as a kid playing a computer game. The carriers that use them, weigh the point spread on areas that they feel the strongest about. ie rapid throttle changes have a rather heavy point subtraction. In the real world, rapid throttle changes(those made with less time than allowed by rule)is more the norm than the rule exception. On commuter trains, the procedure when departing a mainline station is to "rip out" on the throttle for the quickest accelleration. Again I could go on and on but I will close this for now. Anyone who wishes to back-channel me about this, feel free to do so! Charlie
you can break as many rules as you want and you might get cought and they might give you a ticket and let you go but let me tell you this the first time you get hurt all bets are off if you have been cought spiting the wrong way they are going to get you..
This is an interesting comment and I am sure there is a lot of validity to it. But I do have one question for you. How do you feel the increase in business factors in to "every siding full of rolling stock"? Would old heads have been able to keep things moving? I understand this may sound like a flip question, but I mean it in all seriousness. I am curious.
Having a grandson to refer to, a conductor, the employees today don't even try to get the trains over the road. Seems they just don't give a hoot about getting the job done. Inexperienced officials sure doesn't help the problem, either.
My wife and I drove through the Columbia river gorge last week and stayed overnight in Hood River. Over on the Washington side, BNSF was moving many, many trains both e/b and w/b. On the Oregon side I saw ONE UP train moving. Is there a story here?
Of course the real UP mainline is East of Salt Lake, through Wyoming,Nebraska and on to Chicago. I know they run a lot more trains out of Los Angeles than one a day.I'm really not familiar with that end of the UP, though I would think there should be a lot of business out of Seattle and the Portland area. The ATSF has always been a busy railroad
Since I work for an eastern Class 1, I can't speak for UP but I can tell you that the mindset around here has changed completely in the 10 years since I hired out so I would suspect it's the same further west. From the top down, it isn't much about getting over the road or getting it done; it's ALL about getting over the road and getting it done while NOT getting hurt, NOT violating the rules and NOT breaking anything, no matter how long it takes or how many crews. I don't think it has so much to do with the guys not wanting or trying to run the trains or not caring about the work (for the most part anyway), it's just a completely different outlook that you have to adopt if you want to survive long enough to pull the pin in the corporate world we work in these days. You have to get it in your head that it's their train set and however they want it run, that's what they're paying you the big bucks to do...run it their way no matter what. If a 20-something trainmaster who's never thrown a switch orders you to do the dumbest, slowest move in the world, don't argue and get whacked for insubordination. Just bite the bullet and do it. They're happy and your pockets get full. Cheat the rules to get it done and you're in a jam, even if everything comes out OK. If you're lucky and don't get caught, you won't get a quit anyway...you won't even get a 'thank you', they'll just find something else for you to do to fill up your tour. It just don't pay. If you look at it in that context, then the crews do give a hoot and are doing their job but the job itself has changed or at least the priorities have. Right or wrong, agree or disagree...you'll go out of your mind (and probably out of service) trying to beat it. The RRs don't want the retired guys back to show them how to move freight, they're doing it just the way they want to now. That's why a lot of senior guys can't wait to get out...it's frustrating as hell and the nit-picking about rules makes you crazy. One of the old heads told me a while ago, "It ain't like the old road, lad." ...and man, was that ever the truth.
it is not that we dont want to move trains but with the way that we are treated what is the incentive??? do they want to give us a raise no what about helping out with 410k no ok so what about getting us oof the train before we die?? again no they don't care about us in the field so why should we care about them sitting up they in there office.. and oh yeah the l.a. basin is the busiest port in the nation we run over 120 trains through here a day but you wanna know what the problem is ok i'll tell you not enough track to accomadate metro link and the u.p. so there it is in a nut shell
I'm sure you have a valid point there, Kickem.Employees are only a cog in the wheel. It's been that way ever since I can remember and will probably remain that way. I'm so glad I'm retired.
One of the things that cracks me up is that the RR claims they will accept nothing less than 100% rules compliance. Yet, when you do comply with the rules, the RR wants to charge you with delaying the job or it's considered a "work slow down" action by the union. In Toledo, there are trainmasters in charge of us who previously were clerks, dispatchers, car shop foremen and track department office boys. One has even admitted he doesn't know where he can legally perform a banner test! I was written up the other day for a radio rule violation. Now I fully comply with the rule and have already been told politely by a higher up official to cool it. You just can't please everyone, and it seems every official has their own interpretation of the rules. There is a rule that says if you don't understand the meaning of a rule, contact a supervising officer for clarification. I have been waiting almost 2 months for a proper interpretation of at least three rules as they apply in the Toledo area.
:thumbs_down: Probably unhappy with you, as he would need to waste more company time, and go after somebody else to fire. Bleh. :sad: Boxcab E50
I've been down that road. To a good share of management, it's 100% when they're looking and whatever works to get the job done when they're not. If they tell you to hurry up, just ask them which rules you should disregard and who's authorizing it and they tend to go away. Don't worry. If you wait a while longer, they'll change them anyway. I think one of the hardest parts of the job is just keeping up with the modifications and additions. There's a bunch of rules that have changed so much, nobody knows what's in effect or how to interpret them. Makes for some testy conversations with the TM. It's no wonder the new guys look shell-shocked for the first year.
Hello Hoghead! very interesting subject. It's funny that every time the yardmaster calls a crew to see if they are ready to leave, the never are. They either need cab supply to bring them water and crew packs,or the toliets haven't been flushed on the train,or they are not getting a reading on the EOT. It's always something, and to tell you the truth, I don't blame them. It all falls back on the management and the national carriers themselves. We won the case on the crew consists, thanks to the UTU and the BLET for pulling together to fight this. One man crews on through freights? The carriers are crazy! It's things like this that gets folks down at the RR. I heard that we may go to 100% pay in July instead of starting at 80% and bumping up 5% each year afterwards. After all, we are a union, we do the same job as the next man, we should be paid the same. It really gets to you when a manager walks up behind you and writes you up for not having you're ear plugs in when it's 2:30 in the morning and you're hanging on the side of a box car, in the rain trying to make a shove in the dark. It's things like this that makes it a bad day!!
