We're comparing the appearance of the Kato and ConCor GS4's, one has different rods, one has a different diameter boiler etc., but how do each compare to the real thing.
CC modeled their warbaby off the GS-3 and GS-4. The WP version had a single headlight and no mars light (like the GS-3). So I just call mine a GS-3. The warbaby's were the GS-6's with 73" drivers. They were called this because they were smaller than the GS-4s all around and made during the war, hence "warbaby". CC actually states that these are not GS-6's on their web site.
Heres my take on this comparison. Speed control... as mentioned by a few before... the ConCor is a dragster off the line and will fly off the track on any tight curve (less than 13.75") at full throttle. The Kato version is not quite as quick off the line but does have a relative high top speed. The ConCor version does NOT respond as well at low speed... stalling when attempting to crawl... needing a nudge to restart. Kato will respond well through the entire speed range and will crawl better than the ConCor model. My Kato and ConCor GS-4s are NOT as well matched in speed as others have mentioned... the ConCor engine leaves the Kato engine in a cloud of dust. Neither engine deserves an A in this catagory... but... Kato gets a B. ConCor gets a C. Pulling power... both engines weigh about the same 158 gram (~5.5 oz). Both have traction tires. Both pulled the 10 car Daylight consist up my 2% grade without any problems (at a relatively high speed). Kato did better on the 'crawl drag' of the Daylight consist than ConCor. This would have simulated the engine coming into the station slowly... and departing... slowly. Both were fairly close though... again ConCor GS-4 seems to stall too easily. Let me also add that the ConCor version has been run several times since I got it about a year ago... so it should be 'broken in'. The test with the Kato engine is straight out of the box. Kato gets an A ConCor gets a B (being generous) Appearance... I'm not knowlegdeable enough about the prototype to give a detailed assessment of what's right or wrong with either model. Reading some of the prior posts indicates that these could be renditions of two different version of the same model and each has its flaws. This grade is essentially a... how does it 'seem' to look... versus the prototype. The ConCor version seems to sit too high, however, before I saw the Kato version... it didn't look that bad. The boiler on the ConCor is noticably wider than that of the Kato version. The proportions of the Kato version seem to look better than the ConCor version... however... as stated before... perhaps the prototype dimensions are more like the ConCor model. I will judge this one as an equal unknown by not penalizing either one... but I prefer the proportions of the Kato model. As far as paint and details... both are pretty close in paint and the details on both models are similar. ConCor has more little brass plated details... but has more cast-on boiler detail than Kato. Some have mentioned that the pilot on the ConCor version is not correct... I do prefer the appearance of the Kato pilot. Drive train valve/rods configuration looks much better on the Kato engine... heftier looking and the motion looks more realistic. The appearnce catagory goes to Kato Kato gets an A-. ConCor gets a B. Value and intangibles... This one is somewhat of the unfair advantage which puts Kato clearly over the top. While we don't know for sure how good either of these engines will perform over the long-run. Two things are certain... Kato's engine has an MSRP of $198.00 and ConCor's has an MSRP of $298.00. If all the above were equal... this is a monumental difference in price which clearly puts Kato ahead. The other factor is reliability of the manufacturer and support. Again Kato has proven over the years to be very responsive to owners of their product and 'usually' has repair parts available. Most Kato built engines have served long and hard years after they were released (even ones imported by ConCor). On the other hand, ConCor has had a somewhat less than perfect past having imported some items which were unreliable. ConCor has made great strides to improve their quality and has made many engines which might never be made again in N scale... but... it's not enough to overcome their spotty past... YET. Grade A+ to Kato. Grade C to ConCor. Overall for their GS-4's: Kato gets an A-... ConCor gets a B-.
I dont know if anyone else is having the same problem as me. I changed my unitrack switch several times and the pilot wheels would pick the switch which was facing point over and over again. I checked the points with my nmra gauge and also checked the wheel flanges with the gauge. I dont know why it kept picking the switch. I know it doesnt have much pressure holding the pilot wheels down and wonder if thats the problem. Any help here would be appreciated.
I'm having a problem with derailments at Unitrack #6 turnouts. The whole loco bounces off the track at some, only the pilot wheels at others. Very clunky running at the turnouts where it does not derail. All wheels have been checked and all are in gauge. None of my other steam locos act this way. I have communicated the problem to Kato (no reply yet) and I do have return rights with the dealer. This is the first received of several reserved. Others are "in the mail" so I hope this first one is just an anomaly. Ben
I have this problem with the "new" Bachmann 4-8-4 as well. I replaced the rediculously narrow gauged front wheel sets with Fox Valley 36"ers to resolve the problem. No help. I believe the problem is not enough weight on the front pilot. Not an easy fix, and I haven't had the patience to go back and try some more.
The pilot truck on the GS-4 is attached to a spring and can move side-to-side as well as up and down. I wondered if a stronger spring would help or just make it worse. The flanges on the pilot wheels are very shallow. More so than what would be needed for that persnickety brand of track. That could be a problem as well. Do I dare use the p[ilot wheels from a Con-Cor GS-whatever? Hee,Hee. My 2nd one is in the mail. If the same problem is encountered, they'll all go back and I'll try to learn to love diesels. Right now the Daylight cars look pretty good being towed by PCM E7's. Ben
I had mine out pulling 2 full consists of the daylight passenger cars and it didn't even seem to strain the engine. I also had my new big boy's out pulling 2 california zephyr consists plus 8 up passenger cars. No strain on either of those engines when pulling the train each. I also got the challengers out and pulled the same trains with them too. These steam engines are great. sounds like others are having the pilot problems with the g also and its when it goes over #6 turnouts for me also. No problems with the big boys or the challengers on the same switches so it has me leaning towards the pilot wheels. thanks for your responses on the same problems fella's.
Yep, my Challenger has no problems with the turnouts either. Seems Athearn outdid Kato in that respect. But then, Con-Cor did also. No problem with any their locos derailing. No solace in the strong pulling power of the Kato GS-4 if it won't stay on Kato track. Ben
I just tested mine out on my Unitrak test layout. I has one of the longer Unitrak turnouts in it. No problem pulling 40 PFE reefers. I will take them off the track and put the Daylight Passenger cars behind it next. Other than the funky "Mars" light I am very pleased.
CC/Kato GS4 comparisons I've noticed a couple of comments regarding the pilot truck on the CC GS4: keep in mind that CC did NOT build their GS4 from the "ground up", so to speak, like Kato did. CC used their GN S2 frame for the basis of their GS4. The pilot on the CC GS4 only needs to have the outside "S2 type" pilot sides clipped off, which some CC owners have done. Also to be fair in the traction department of these two loco's ... CC is all wheel drive ... Kato only has one (1) geared driver w/traction tire and this transfers 'power' via the drive rods to the rest of the drivers. So when comparing the two loco's for pulling power, I think the Kato wins out hands down. I do not model SP even though I grew up (until I was bout 9) in Northern California, so I'm rather happy with the "late" version GS4 Kato has modeled. #4449 will now be able to make occasional tour runs through my Great Northern Pacific territory. :tb-wink::thumbs_up: My personal overall grades: Kato - A+ Con Cor - B-
True, I have done that on a friends CC CS4 and on the two S2s that I kit bashed into GS1s. The remaining truck resembles the prototype better. However the Kato has modeled a lot of brake detail on the truck between the wheels. I may look into buying two new trucks when they become available at Kato Parts to upgrade my GS1s.
I too look forward to the parts to become available for this loco. There are quite a few pieces that will be great for kitbashing. Plus I'll probably look at aquiring a tender to replace the one on my CC GS-3. Another plus about the way that Kato did the shell, it will only take a bit of modification for them to offer a skirtless version, since the boiler and cab come off separate from the skirts.
Critic's Choice: Grandpa Joe and all others tuned in, Critic's Corner: I appreciate your take regarding the GS 4, CC vs Kato comparison. On your word I'm off to purchase a Kato GS4. I just hope someone still has a #4449. I will check my LHS in San Bernardino first and if they didn't luck out... then I'm off and running. Thanks again! .
Hi BarstowRick, My LHS ordered more GS-4s than he had reservations for; he may have some available. If you can't find one in your area, let me know and I'll check with him. No promises though.
Also check TrainStore - I just noticed this: Description: If you didn't get your Kato GS4 and 10 car Morning Daylight sets yet, I have a couple of unclaimed preorders that have been placed in my store inventory and are ready for you to buy now! Price is at or below the prices being charged by most online dealers and they come with free US shipping or discounted International shipping. go to http://www.ksisales.com to purchase yours today. Good luck,
