Rick, You might want to read the posts regarding GS-4 derailments. Three so far including my own, all involving Unitrack. I spoke to Dee Gilbert at Kato and I will be returning mine to Kato. Caveat emptor. :tb-sad: Ben
Grandpa Joe, Jerry and all tuned in. I know my ConCor doesn't derail while negotiating a Unitrack switch. No problem-o with it. Judging from what Grandpa Joe and others have said...the following. I believe it's the Kato lead truck and drivers. They may be a little tight with regard to gauge. Kato's unitrack isn't 100% true to gauge...either. The diverging point and rail isn't true to the curve. Not to mention that in heat the outside curve of the diverging rail can creep in toward the moving points squeezing the gauge of the track. I noticed this last summer and corrected it with a bead of Gap Filling Cyanoacrylate. So, it may take same minor re-gauging and another look at the switches to make it work. It's possible the Con Cor drivers has a small margin of play or articulation that allows the drivers to fit the rail and the Kato may be rigid or stiff. Just a thought...something to look at. Personally, I prefer the all drivers geared up as in the Con Cor. However, I think it's just two drivers geared up in the Con Cor...as I look at... and decode the parts list. No joke.
Update Today I received the second of my GS-4's and except for an occasional derailing of the pilot truck the performance is more like expected. The first one actually bounces off the track at some #6 switches. Acts like out-of-gauge drivers but my NMRA gauge says they are within gauge. It will be returned to Kato. The pilot truck derailments may be prevented by additional weight to the truck but I don't see how yet. I did try a less flexible spring on the pilot truck suspension of the first one but that didn't help, actually made it worse. I have not tried that with the second one. Ben
Oof... I haven't tried mine over any turnouts yet. I am going to try and run to the clubhouse tonight or this weekend and do that. Hmmm... I will let people know if I come up with any problems or solutions. :rn-ooh::eh-wideyed::bear-unsure::tb-err:
Interesting about the Kato Unitrack #6 turnouts... in the above picture... there is a #6 just behind the ConCor GS-4. Neither engine derailed over the turnout. Both made a little 'racket' going over the turnout and the two 15 degree crossings... but no derailments. The only engine that almost took a spill was the ConCor due to its high speed an high center of gravity at a 13.75" radius curve. I've only had trouble with the Daylight Cars (the articulated coach). There is one thing that I may have not done which I'll report later on... the Kato GS-4 has only traveled in one direction throughout this test. Tonight I will take it to the Big Pine & Sawgrass Club layout which has some Unitrack #6's and a double crossover. We'll see if derailment problems occur there. BTW: I ran my Athearn Big Boy at the BP&S Club last Tuesday with no problems... a 32 car consist of IMRC reefers/boxcars & Atlas wood reefers (photos later )
I got "ONE" and they are holding it for me until I can get down off the hill, after the first of the month. No security deposit. How about them apples? Wow! This is just one of the advantages of dealing with and staying loyal to your LHS. I know Jim, well and he manages a good train department. He knows his customers, listens to them and anticipates what they will be buying. Thanks to all for the info shared, your critique and kind words. I'm looking forward to getting my Kato, SP "Daylighter", GS4 home where it belongs. I will provide a critique once it's here. I might add I have tweaked all my #6 Unitrack switches and I don't anticipate any problems. Darn the excitement! This keeps up, my chest will start hurting and the old ticker may flutter once too many times. Oh, I forgot to take my morning pills....hrrrruuuumph! That will stop the chest pain...got to get busy...grin! Having fun!
Ummm... there is a traction tire. I thought I would tell you now before you go get it just to see if I can bring the fluttering back to a regular lub-dub.:tb-wink:
Four runs, One Aborted Derailment I just completed four runs of the (2nd received by me) Kato GS-4 through 25 #6 turnouts each of the four times. No derailments except on the 2nd run through one turnout the pilot truck derailed but popped back on the track at an adjoining turnout. The derailment occured on the straight route entering from the frog end of the first turnout and rerailed itself on the adjoining turnout entering from the point end and traveling the diverging route. You would think it would have been the opposite. UPDATE: Slight undergauge track where the two turnouts joined has been aligned and no derails at all for this loco. I still think a little extra weigh to the pilot truck may help if I can figure out where to add it. The 1970's Bachmann Northern had a sprung pilot truck but also had weights on both axles of the wheelsets. There is not room to add similar weights to the Kato GS-4. But there must be a way. Ben
TRACTION TIRE! grrrrr That did it. Settled me right down. I was aware of it but what the heck. If you can't beat them...join them. Naw, that isn't going to work. Still, I don't want to miss out on a Kato...Kato...SP GS4! And I got's... ONE! Grandpa Joe and all tuned in, You might want to take a file and thin down the points on the Kato #6 Unitrack Switch. I had to do that with mine. I'l bet you already knew that. Ben, indicates adding weight to the lead truck and a small washer might do. Thanks to all for the comeback. Having fun! .
I am going to try mine on several Atlas and PECO turnouts tonight if things work out right and I get to the club layout. I will report back. I would guess that something like this with a spring mounted pilot truck will find EVERY minor deficiency in the turnouts on one's layout. I mean, just look at how much work it is to throw this thing on the track. It's certainly more work than any of my SW-1200's or GP-whatevers.
Rick, I didn't say anything about a washer but you have given me an idea about how to add weight. I made several more GS-4 runs, this time with the Daylight consist, and the pilot truck derailed then rerailed itself on the same two switches each time. if I can count on this happening every time I'm a happy camper. UPDATE: No more derailments after aligning track where the two switches join to correct slight under gauge. Ben
Think that the GS-4 is tough to put on the rails... Then the Big Boy with its 24 wheels would be madness.... Just a little taste of the Big Boy on the BP&S club layout (under construction.... still) I'm on my way now to test the GS-4 on the layout... more on the results later.
Washer Weight! Grandpa Joe, I do like your Big Boy. It looks good. Ben, You are so right and yes I added the idea of a washer. Try it and let me know how it works. I can't wait to get mine home.
I have to join the crowd. My GS4 derailed on all my #6 Kato switches, too. The pilot truck seems to hate what every other engine I have loves. But that is not the worst. When I installed the decoder the engine went nuts! It sputtered and jerked and shorted out on the switches. Jumped and jerked down the track until it refused to move. I opened it and re-installed the decoder just in case, but no better. Then I installed the second decoder I ordered for a second GS4 when available and it acted the same???? Its on the way back to my dealer. Oh yes, one of the traction tires was off and probably contributed to this also. Don't know if that happened by all the jerky movement or out of the box. Either way, a major disappointment so far. The passenger cars are beautiful, and only one minor difficulty with the leading truck on the articulated dinner. I had to re-seat it since it was catching on something or??? I was able to get it correctly installed. Pulled the consist with a pair of Kato Daylight E units.
I saw a friend run his GS-4 and it ran great. got me to buy one today I got mine. well, first thing was, no lights at all. a tap on the top and lights came on, little bit later off again, a tap again and on again. then I noticed whenever the lights were not on, I would turn the throttle up to about "70" and the lights would come back. I assume a loose brass/metal wiper or somethign somewhere, I will have to take it apart. but more important, I got noise! only going forward, and at slower speads about 30-40 on the throttle. it kinda reminds me of a metal gear sound, a bit grindy, but almost more like an old Lionel electric (A/C?) motor sound. kinda metallic. it comes out more when pulling cars, and more cars/load makes it worse. also an incline makes it worse, but not on a decline. so from all that, it seems under more load, it makes the noise, but at the slower end of the speed. if I speed the throttle up to 70+ it is gone. I did some running in at different speeds forward & back, and it is a little better. so I will try to run it in some more. also pop the cover to see if anything looking odd. I can take a look at the loose light issue as well. I'm kinda disapointed in having those two issues (or any issues) from a Kato product. I have many micro-ace steam as well as others and a lot of the new athearn 4-6-6-4 and a 4-8-8-4 all of which are quiet smooth and free of any issues. just feeling a little bad about my purchase. PS: a ray of hope: no derailment issues. and I have a whole bunch of kato #6 switches as well as others.
Kato's SP Daylighter...did what? Hi Doc, I don't know what to say. This would be very disappointing to say the least. Traction tire is off....what have I said about traction tires? "Poor man's excuse for a hard pulling locomotive", I think is what I said. I may try and get mine picked up early just to give at a hard critical look. The news isn't good so far. By all means...you are doing the right thing by sending it back. I still can't wait to get my unit home. We shall see. If it ain't fun it ain't worth doing. .
Hey Rick,is that your daylight in Jims show case? sure looks fine. By the way you going to be at the Roundhouse gangs swap meet Sat.? Did anyone else notice that the station behind the Daylight in the Kato adds is the casting that our own TJS909 made! Your famous Tom!
Well... I'm back from the BP&S club with my report and some pictures. This first picture is an overview of the N scale layout.. which is still under construction. As you can see, there are 4 #6 turnouts (two sidings) and a double crossover. I am happy to reply that no derails of the GS-4 on any of the turnouts or the crossover. BTW... That's me @ the lower right corner of the pic. NOW... for the bad news... most of these pictures were taken with the GS-4 moving through the layout. While it may be difficult to see... all of the lights on the engine were NOT working... no headlight, mars light, nor number boards... all were off. The Daylight tailcar did have lights working. So... as noted by Kozmo... there appears to be a problem with the lighting... a connection which can easily come loose or a board that fails in some fashion. In any event... NO derail... very smooth running overall... but another apparent flaw which is taking some of the luster off of this pretty penny.
