I was wondering if anyone has any idea for track work on this benchwork I have come up with? I basically took off all the track work and started over. I am thinking of keeping the yard where it is but changing some things. I can actually come from the peninsula to the yard or throw a switch and go on to the main line/branch line. The mainline loop is being re-designed to allow the loop to actually go under the layout on the left hand side make a loop then come across the front and start to come up to the module section on the right hand side. I think that is the only way I can get to that module. The module on the right hand side will actually set about 3-3.5" below 0 grade. I am not sure what to put in there yet. A chemical plant or maybe tank farm. Unsure at this point. I was also thinking about in the back left hand wall near the furnace, a coal mining operation above grade but not sure how I can get to it. Any suggestions on how track work should or could go feel free to let me know. If you think of a plan from scratch that would be helpful also. I am not sure how the peninsula is working out by coming and going on both sides. Scooter
I hope this one gets a reply. I have started to design the yard as my starting point. As come out of the yard to the branch line and travel left, you can either go through a tunnel which takes you down to a lower level as seen in my other post or you can go around and possibly go up to a coal mining operation. I do not know if I can actually do that do to room enough for an upgrade with the distance I have (only 12' long). I think I am going to have to give up on a loop on this level unless I am missing something.
In this post, I am showing a lower level where I can fit a loop going around to a modular section where I am thinking of putting in a small tank farm. This maybe the only way I can get a loop into my layout. One problem I see is that know can really see it go around except where in goes in to the tunnel and out of the tunnel or a breif glimpse at it on the modular section. It seems the more I do the worse it gets but sooner or later I will get a plan that works. I did see a website for designing a layout to my basement but there is a deposit of $150.00 then $40.00 for every hour worked on. That is outrages unless they plan on coming and building it but where is the fun in that. Scooter
Scooter- Let's see if we can generate some interest in your layout so you'll get some good advice before you throw the whole idea away and turn your room into a storage facility. First off, the images you're loading are so large that it's hard for people to get a grasp at what you have going on. It also causes all the text in everybody's reply to stretch way across the page, which is hard to read. I also know it's frustrating to check back time and time again and find no or few responses to your post. I'm sure we've all been there. One thing that we need to do is make sure you use the space you've got wisely. It would be a shame to see such a good amount of space for a layout go to waste. And from what it sounds like, I would bet that instead of cramming in a ton of track and multiple levels into your space, you'd be much more likely to have fun and make progress if you go with a single level plan that is *do-able*. If you make it too complicated in this stage, you'll never get past building your benchwork. Anyway, I've drawn up a track plan that *I* could start with if I had this space. Keep in mind that I like scenery, and I'm not very educated on how prototypical railroads use trakcs in yards and sidings and the like. One thing I did was give you some more room to breathe. It looked like it was going to be hard to get around in there. Also, in the top right and left corners, the way you had it, you would not have been able to reach very far back into the layout. Even in my drawings, it'd be better to have acces hatches. Hopefully somebody will have better or more advice than just me, 'cause I don't really feel like I'm ready to plan a layout this large. Well, let me know what you think. Maybe this will be of some help to you, maybe not. But hopefully yes. -Dave [ 09. April 2003, 21:18: Message edited by: daveheinzel333 ]
I like it. What software did you use to create that? I've been using Atlas RTS and I'm looking for something else to make a neater looking track plan like what you just did. [ 09. April 2003, 21:34: Message edited by: Hoss ]
Hoss- I wish I could tell you it IS a layout program, and I also wish I could tell you it was easy & cheap. But the program is called Adobe Illustrator, and it's what I use at my day job (graphic design), and it's hard to learn and expensive Because it's not a layout program, I just eyeball things as I draw them. So the turnouts & such are not exact, and it certainly wouldn't tell me how many pieces of what track I need. But if I take the time to set up a good grid system, it's not too hard to figure out. So yeah, it makes nice looking drawings, but it's not very handy in trying to nail down a layout. It works great though for drawing layouts to post here I'm still looking for a good layout program that will run on my macintosh. I've got one, but it doesn't have atlas track sizes programmed into it, which is what I would probably use.
Let me add my welcome to train board, Scooter. I'm pretty new at layout design myself, though I have been building structures, rolling stock, and locomotives for several years. While I think that this thread is headed in the right direction I'd like to add a few of my own thoughts. It looks like you've got a whole room for a layout and that's great. However, it sounds like you're a bit overwhelmed. I'd suggest starting small. A 4x8 would fit in your space no problem. While there are certain limitations to a 4x8 both operationally and spacially there are many atvantages as well. For the beginner (which I am one too when it comes to layout building) it allows the opertunity to learn and try new things. Even the mighty John Allen started with a 4x8. He worked and developed skills and ideas and then eventually incorporated it into his much larger layout that so many remember. By starting small you will be able to quickly see your efforts come to fruition, even if you only have a limited amount of time. A big railroad can be a daunting task and getting discouraged will not increase your interest in the hobby. With 4x8 you can complete most of the major work and scenery in a few weeks, and then come back and finish areas as your skills increase. Also going back and redoing a section will be easier. An excellent of this is Dave Heinzel's layout. Dave frequently posts pictures of the progress on his layout and his website has some great pictures that show how progects are progressing. As your layout progresses you can enlarge the scope of your plans by adding on. I did like the modular sections that you had in your plan. You could add modules as time allowed. Another advantage would be adaquate room for a workbench. I've learned from experience that a small cluttered workspace is counter productive. Eventually you could bild the layout around or over the workbench. That would be better than wishing you had more space. Model Railroader recently did an excellent 4 part series on a 4x8, and they have had many plans in the past. The most recent edition of Model Railroad Planning, an annual put out by the MR guy, had a lot of ideas for small layouts that still had lots of operating potential. Finally, if you can, find someone nearby with a railroad you can visit. I recently visited a quite famous model railroad and was very inspired, not only by the excellent work but by talking and listening to the builder. He's been doing this longer than I've been alive so he knew what he was talking about. Well I could go on about this and many other aspects of our enjoyable hobby, but I've already written to much. I hope that whatever you decide to do that you keep in mind that model railroading is supposed to be fun. I apologize if any of the older, more experience guys here think I'm headed in the wrong direction. I hope to hear more about your layout in the future. Good luck, John Bursi
I'm not older or more experienced...but I too am new to the hobby. I'm gonna take a little bit different stance than the one above, however. When I began planning for my layout many people told me that I should start small and fine tune my skills before trying something bigger. I was told by many that I'd get bogged down with a big layout and that I'd get frustrated and quit. Despite the warnings, I decided on an 8'x17' layout in my garage. Even though I'm still in the early stages of it, I don't regret going "big" one bit. I WANT to be able t run long trains....and watching short trains run around in loops on a little 2x3 or 3x5 just didn't interest me. I could have worked with a 4x8, but even that seemed too small for my liking. I guess what I'm saying is that in my opinion there's nothing wrong with starting out big. Certainly starting out small has it's advantages, but I think you can still do just fine if you start out big.
I would be interrested in helping you plan a layout. It looks like you have a huge room. My layout is in what I consider a smaller space, it is 9'-10" x 20'. I say it is small because in my pervious house I had a space that was 20 x 40 feet, . But after a year of track planning and 500 plans I came up with a plan the I am very happy with. I operate with up to three other people. I think one of the things is you may be putting the cart in front of the horse. What i mean is you don't really have a goal other than having an operating layout. I may be wrong, sorry if I am. When I designed my layout in the smaller space I had, I had to think about how many operaters did I want. Then I designed a plan that would support that. Also it helps if you have an idea of what you want your railroad to do. Do you want an eastern coal minning railroad, do you want to serve local industry in small towns, do you want a railroad around a city with lots of heavy industrial switching. Once you pick something it gives you a direction to start planning. Don't get me wrong, this is your hobby and you can do anything you want. I just found it better for myself to set a type of railroad I wanted to model. If you pick a prototype and you want to recreate it in a specific era and location, you will have an easier job planning your layout. You may have trouble trying to get it all to fit, but you will know what you will need to try and fit. I model a fictious railroad that was based on many different lines, but they all did the same thing...haul coal. You can see a shot of one part of my layout on the post about "Coal minning and Loader ideas". You might want to look at what type of equipment you want to run. If you are going to run bigger locomotives and long trains then you will need wide radius and long sidings. For me, I run lighter steam (2-8-0) and smaller diesels (rs-3 and gp-9) with trains no longer than 15 forty foot cars. What type of track are you using, prefab or flex? What does your bench work look like, table top or some form of open grid or L-girder? Do you want grades? Would you like hidden staging to hold trains going to the other parts of the world? Do you want a continuious running or point to point or both? There is lots to think about and do, but I found that each time I drew a plan I got better working with the space and each plan got better. Don't give up yet, you'll get it.
I appreciate all the suggestions. I know my layout images keep coming in huge. I crop them really small but then it seems if they grow really big. At work I have a 19" monitor and everything shows up okay but at home with a 15" monitor everything is off the screen. I will try to remedy that in the future. At the club I belong to I have worked on a 4X8 layout and at the last place I lived I had a 5X10 from "101 track plans" book. At my house I have this area where I would like to have 3 - 4 people operating it. I am trying to design a point to point but with a loop where I can run continuoously when I am by my self working in areas but able to see a train run around. The era for this layout would be modern day diesels. I was thinking CSX/B&O. This way I can say it is some what prototypical yet fictious since I may want to throw on a steam locomotive just to see one go around when it is just me operating it. I chose this size because in my opinion a 4x8 is kind of boring and very limited an having visitors come, a 4X8 just does not impress thoughs who already have low opinions of model railroading because they remember the oval type trainsets one buys in a store. I like scenery too but I also like a lot of swiching. I am trying too decide what to have on my layout as far as industry, town, or yards. I some friends that have there layouts so that by operating a round robin at each others house you can actually travel from Cleveland, Ohio to Vermont by way of traveling through New York. I was trying to tie my area into the CSX line around the Baltimore or even Pennsylvania. The common industry on all layouts is coal orginating out of Ohio.
Now we have some details to go on. 1. CSX 2. Out east 3. Modern 4. Switching Now; 1. About how many operators? 2. Hidden staging yard? 3. What type of traffic would you like to see? 4. Do you want a main line comming from somewhere (staging maybe) stopping at a yard to drop off local traffic. The a local freight or two, maybe even more, taking that freight that was left off by the road crews and working back along the main. Maybe even one local that works up a branch and maybe that branch might have a larger coal tipple that could load hoppers and a unit coal train?? 5. do you want grades on your main, branch, both, or neither?
COALTRAIN, 1. 3-4 Operators 2. Hidden staging yard - Would be nice but not real necessary if I have the yard where it is. 3. I like tank cars and coal hoppers. I was also thinking local delivery to a small town area and a country pickup of livestock and grain. 4. I was thinking staging yard could be for in coming freight from outside of town in local indusrty shipping to outside towns. I was also thinking that the country pickup would be local going to nearest town for processing at industries (example - livestock to meat processing plant/butcher then ship to other town businesses and outside sources). A couple local freight would be acceptable. The coal tipple up a branchline sounds good. 5. I have been trying to incorporate this idea which my be a little silly but try this...A tunnel with an automated door the rises as the train approaches. I saw that in an MR amgazine back in '94 or maybe '96 and thought that might be a cool thing to have to show youngsters and others. 6. Grades would be nice if not to difficult. More on a branch line maybe going to the coal tipple or something.
Ok, good, now just a few more things. 1. What kind of bench work do you have / want. The reason I ask this is because some people don't have the ability to do much fancy carpentry. Are you using a flat table and then some form or risers and road bed to put your track on, or are you just laying it on the top of a flat piece of plywood, or do you have a cookie cutter type road bed. Do you get what I mean? 2. What kind of track are you using? 3. How long would you like your main line trains and your branch line trains? After I get this information you will have to give me a few days to draw up something. It may not be anything what you want but it may get the juices flowing and you might see something you never thought of. I like to start planning on paper until I get a plan that is close to what I like then I draw it on Autocad to make sure everything will fit as planned. So the first images I post might be scanned paper images. Track planning is one of my favorite parts of the hobby.
COALTRAIN, I am not sure what you mean exactly about the kind of bench work you mean. I was planning on it being a piece of plywood with homosote over it. I am thinking along the lines of L-girder for the frame. I figured that the cookie cutter method would be best and I have all sorts of tools to do that with. As far as road bed, not really sure. I like the homosote road bed but that is not easily found any more, atleast here in Central New York. Is this what you mean? I am planning on using flex track, probably Atlas code 80. I am not really sure what the different codes really mean except with the Rivorossi and IHC loco's plus some Bachman's had those really wide flanges on their wheel sets but I do not have to worry about that since all my engines are Athearns. The length of a main line trains or branch I would have to say maybe the minimum length would be somewhere around 15 cars. I do like long coal and tank trains I on some of my earlier posts you will find the size of an area I am working with. The critical area and dimension is where the furnace is. What kind of Autocad are you using? I could send you the area of my basement. I am using Autocad 2002 but can save I believe down to Release 12. Thanks for the help.
Yea, that's what I ment about the benchwork / road bed. I was just trying to get an idea of your skill level. What I was trying to find out if you were just going to lay out a flat sheet of plywood and nail track to it or if you were going to cut out the shape of the sub-roadbed and place homasote on it. I wanted to know how much freedom I had in planning the track. Rail codes refer to the height on the rail in inches. Atlas code 83 rail is 0.083" high from the bottom of the rail's base flange to the top of the rail head. Code 83 is a very good choice to go with, much more real looking than the old Atlas code 100 (0.100" high rail). I wanted to know what track you were using so I knew what to insert for turnouts. I am assuming your going to use flex track. I thought those dimensions on your drawing looked like Autocad. I have Autocad 2002 also. My email address is jkraker@crowniron.com
one more thing, I got my homasote from Menards. They call it hobby board and is sold in 2' x 4' sheets on a rack inside the store, usually by the lumber counters. It is a hassel to only have them 2' x 4' but i couldn't find it any other way. My friend is building his layout with cork roadbed over 3/4" plywood and it looks nice. The only trouble he is having is in the yards you have to use lots of cork. The do sell the stuff in what they call cork sheet and it looks like it is about 9" wide. The nice part of cork is you don't have to cut all of the homasote to conform to your sub-road bed. It goes much faster to put it down instead of homasote. Both have their advantages and disatvantages. I wish homasote was easier to get.
Around here in Syracuse, New York a place called Chase-Pickens stills sells the 4x8 sheets. Home Depot use to but around here not much call for it so the store do not stock it here, atleast in Syracuse. I am planning on flex track just have not made up my mind on Micro engineering or Atlas. I one point i was goig to hand lay the track but I think it is a waste of time. our club does the hand laid stuff and I feel as long as it is ballast right, it is hard to tell. I will send you the area of what I have on Autocad.
Scooter, Welcome to Trainboard! I'm sorry to add my input so late in this stage of planning, but I just noticed your post this morning! I think Coaltrain is doing an excellent job of helping you get your "givens and druthers," as John Armstrong would say, down on paper (or on a computer screen, as the case may be! ). Thinking about what you want to incorporate into your railroad NOW will only help you in the long run. If you want an idea on planning trackwork in your industrial peninsula, and if you have access to back issues of Model Railroader, check out the article on the Mohave Western in the April 1984 issue. Bob Miller incorporated such a switching area into his railroad, and it looks it might have been fun to switch cars around there. If you can't get a copy of this issue, contact Model Railroader. They do make photocopies of past articles for a small fee. I haven't seen this article reprinted in any of their books, so this might be your only option. Also, looking at the rough plan Dave Heinzel drew for you, you could place a coal mine in the upper right corner where he put a tunnel. This gives a reason for a tunnel, and the mountain could curve to the right just enough to visually separate the coal mine from the industrial section just below it. Just a couple thoughts... Pat
Well here is my first shot at designing a layout from your want list. I sent the cad file in a detailed email to you with section views and detailed views of the hidden staging yard. Also is a list of th possible operating crew jobs that could be performed. Everyone, tell us what you think. [ 12. November 2003, 13:22: Message edited by: Coaltrain ]
