This may be more appropriate for the DCC forum but it does concern an N scale layout: Can N scale Unitrack #6 switches (power-routing) be used with DCC without changing the internal wiring of the switch? I have no objection to having dead sidings when power is not routed by the switch so if this is the only problem I can live with it. There may be a problem with power-routing switches that are used at reversing sections or loops but I haven't been able to find information precisely on this subject. Ben
Ben, I'm not sure if this reply is necessarily what you're looking for... You can use insulated joiners to the block power to the sidings when the turnout is set for the mainline. Power to the siding can be controlled as needed by wiring that section track to the power bus directly and use an an Atlas Selector or other device to turn it on/off as needed.
I have been reading Allan Gartner's DCC suggestions, especially the one concerning making N scale Unitrack #6 switches "DCC friendly" at: http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches_kato.htm I would like to avoid the internal wiring of the switch mechanisms, as he suggests, unless this is absolutely necessary. Ben
Yes, and no. It all depends on your ability with the NMRA gauge to keep the gauge of your engines exactly to spec. You will also have problems if you have "fat" tired locomotives, such as steam engines. DCC "friendly" means that the point and the nearest stock rail (the rail the point touches) should be the same polarity all the time. The problem is in the open side of the points, where the point does NOT touch the stock rail. Most times, older switches are wired so that these are opposite polarity. It is very possible to short these two rails together. Under DC, you get a stuck engine, but on DCC you get a shutdown and possible high temperature at the shorting point. :lightning: That said, if you never short the point and stock rail, you will never have a problem...
Tony, Thanks. I do have quite a few steam locomotives to consider. And many locos that would require a lot of work to be able to install decoders. Only a few are DCC-ready. My DC layout has served me well thus far. Perhaps it would be best to stick with it. Ben
Ben: The JJJ&E is run by DCC and has over forty Unitrack turnouts. None of these have to be rewired for use with DCC. Just take them out of the box and connect them to your layout. Alan Gartner's article about Kato Unitack's compatibility with DCC is very misleading and quite frankly dated. None of the Unitrack turnouts internal mechanisms have to be rewired for DCC. Stay cool and run steam.....
Wireing A Unitrack #6 Switch May I jump in here. I agree with Powersteamguy1790 and Tony B.. Not meant to exclude the other particpants. I am building a layout utilizing Unitrack #6 Switches. I am wireing the layout in preparation for DCC. I isolate both rails of the track on the split side of the frog. Much like you would do if you were setting up for blocks controlled by a DPDT toggle switch. This eliminates the possibility of a short or hot spot...period. I cut both rails of the track after Zap-A-Gapping the track into place. I use a dremel tool with a fine cutting disc to cut the track. Then I Zap-A-Gapp the cut-filling it... and then fileing off any unwanted glue. Plastic railjoiners will warp and the plastic gap filler will interfer with the wheels derailing your equipment. Atlas controllers although easy to wire have caused me problems in the past. The "Common Rail", thing which Atlas promotes has many inherent problems. I would have to start a different thread to discuss and I.D. the symptoms and problems it creates. The good news is: DCC does away with those inherent problems. Hear me when I say it's the way to go and easiest to wire for. I will have some blocks controlled by DPDT or SPST in the yards or engine facilities where I will have locomoitves standing...idleing and waiting call to service. I insist the power to these locomotives be turned OFF. No potential for buring out a computer chip or motor as was the case with common rail. And, that's the only reason I'd go to the trouble to wire DPDT toggles in. If I made this sound complicated...well, that's my fault. Actually it's very simple. Have fun and enjoy your hobby.
Rick: To run a DCC layout you don't have to isolate the rails. I do have blocks on the JJJ&E, but they are for block occupancy detection, signaling and feedback devices. For routine sidings I don't isolate any rails. There isn't any need to. If a loco enters a siding from the mainline it can sit there. It only moves when it's address is called on the throttle. That info is then relayed to the command station of the DCC system. The only isolated section of track is the programmimg track for decoders which is a three foot siding that is completely isolated from the mainline and is only used for programming. I've also had no problems with warping of Unitrack plastic rail joiners. Kato makes them very strong, not like rail joiners for most N scale track. Stay cool and run steam....
Everyone I know seems to run DCC on Unitrack with no problems, no modification. In fact, the combination seems to be mutual selling point at the LHS -- you can go right home and start running with DCC. Still, Tony's warning also applies to (generally older) cars with steel wheels that are out of gauge and that pick the turnout points. to2leo recently posted on what Kato showed at the Shizuoka (Japan) show and one item was a #6 turnout with LED direction indicators and the word "DCC" being bandied about in the descriptive text. So DCC activated, maybe? The pictures are gone from the archives so there's nothing to check back on. Nothing in Kato Japan's product announcements, either. We'll have to wait and see.
Steaminghost: I control over 40 Unitrack turnouts on the JJJ&E using DCC. I wire stationary decoders to the turnouts which is in actuality hooking the two wires from the turnout to the decoder and them to the two bus lines. I've been controlling the Unitrack turnouts that way for years. DCC and Unitrack turnouts is no mystery. It's rather straightforward and quite easy. Stay cool and run steam....
My layout is also unitrack. I use stationary decoders as well and just used the two wires from the turnouts. Thanks to Bob, I have not looked back. Kato is almost fool proof., Which just fits me fine. You can see mine by clicking the link below. Alan
Could someone put an ohmmeter to the off side point and the stock rail on a newly purchased Kato switch to see if they are the same polarity? I have old ones. Perhaps the design has changed. The article does clearly state that the overly large throw of the Kato points probably makes them work with almost all engines. If the point rail is in no danger whatsoever of being shorted to the stock rail, then you will be just fine. Of course, it may not look so good... :angel:
I've never had a problem with over forty Kato turnouts in seven plus years of operating the JJJ&E. The age of the turnouts goes from seven plus years to recent vintage. I just hook up the turnouts to other track, wire them to stationary decoders and to the common bus lines and run the system. I love to test out all my track and turnouts by running my Kato PA's around the JJJ&E. They glide through all the trackwork and turnouts and crossovers with ease. If there is a problem with track the Kato PA's will find it very quickly. I don't worry about rail polarity as it isn't an issue. Tony, do you run DCC on your layout? Which article are you basing your comments from? Stay cool and run steam......
To Powersteamguy1790 and all tuned in. Bob, I believe you just made my job of wireing the layout much easier. Thanks for the tip.
Rick: I'm glad to have helped you. What "tip" did you find from the info I passed along. Wiring for DCC is very easy and a basic DCC layout can be wired in several hours. If you're running DC and want to convert to DCC, all you have to do is unhook your DC power supply and hood two wires from the DCC command station to the track. Then you'll be up and running. The rest of the layout's wiring can be "fine tuned" at your convenience. Stay cool and run steam.....
Bob, If all I have to do is unhook my DC power and hook the DCC command station, can I replace one of my two DC power packs (wired for two cab operation) with DCC but retain the other DC cab? This is assuming that one or the other is selected exclusively at any one time for powering the layout. If this can be done, the DC power could remain part time for all the older locos that can never be decoder equipped with ease. My home layout is fairly large (much of a 22 x 12 room) and has 4 reverse loops/sections so I assume that more than just a starter command station would be required, something the equivalent of Digitrax Empire Builder at a minimum. Or is doing this going to present more problems than I am imagining? Thanks, Ben
The ease of DCC Hi Bob, You got me steamed up...that is in a good way. Wow. The tip about not needing to isolate the track and Kato's #6 Switches. I am running into some difficulties with that as I also have Peco electrofrog switches on the sidings and in the yard. My mainline is strictly Kato's #6 switch. So, far the layout has been constructed with the old rule of isolating both rails of the track on the split side of the switches....then wireing up every block or section of track with individual drop wires from both rails. Your tip may reduce the amount of work I am putting into this layout.... in order to get it built. The tip you left as stated in the quote above makes things extremely simple. I am using 24 and 22 gauge drop wires hooked up to larger gauge wire. Will this cause me problems when I switch over to DCC? I am also thinking by blocking such as I am, I will be able to establish signal blocking and such. Is that possible? Thanks again.
DPDT and one side on DCC Ben, This is exactly where I was going. My plan is to operate DC on the left side of the DPDT toggled switch and DCC on the right side of the same toggle. However, with the simplicity of wireing as suggested by Bob - Powersteamguy1790. I am seriously rethinking my project. Most of my equipment is standard DC and I have units that are DCC ready that Iam planning on switching over. Later of course. Bob, it looks like you have two of us asking the same question.
Ok now not to intrude on the conversation on here. but I'm going to be getting a NCE power cab system within the next couple months so I can go dcc. and was told by the train shop that I have to use the insulated connectors on all the turnouts. why is this? and that I'll have a dc power pack to power the control switches. ?? ok call me stupid but had to chime in here because of having the Kato track. and it's over 10 years old now but has been packed away most of it's life. I'm doing a new layout and just not wanting to run into problems as I'm doing it. Thanks guys
Not sure you got the right info... No intrusion. The more we talk this out here, the better off our layout operations will be. The switches operate on DC. By reversing the polarity you can re-align the switch...no more three wire AC wireing. On the other question of isolating the switch...which is what I've been doing. It may have value but if I hear what Bob has been saying, it isn't necessary. I'l let Bob answer that question.
