Z is pretty nice. I just ordered two more 50' modern boxcars from Chuck to paint up in some nice modern schemes that I saw in Altoona a few weeks ago. MT does a nice job on these cars - they even appear to be close to prototypical height more so than their n-scale version. I have a couple of comments and questions. 1. Where can I get more modern stuff? 2. Besides Tim and ScaleRail, where can I get decals? 3. Why does the MT GP35 look toyish? The width of the hood and the trucks look like 1950's lionel or American Flyer to me. 4. Will the new MT GP9 look more like a scale model? 5. Why is the MT track code 55 when Z scale flanges are more lo-pro than the default in nscale? 6. Why is MT less secretive with future Z scale offerings than with N scale offerings. 7. Why are all of you civil and nice? Where is the arguing?:teeth: :teeth:
I'll take a stab at some of these! I placed a few answers in Blue lettering to hopefully help you in your quest! Just my 2 cents worth. Hobo Tim
Z Scale is addictive. There is really Nothing available in Z, so you have to make do, or, like me, make it yourself! I can make Alps decals, usually in trade for something, as I don't like money, I just like the stuff you can trade it for. The GP 35 is a Basis loco, the basis for lots of fun projects. This is where you put you skills to good use, with weathering to hide things that offend. The GP35 has an 8mm motor inside, so to make an injection molded shell, some width compromise was made. A 6mm motor would not have pulled much train. Once you pack your GP35 with the proper details from BLMA and some you make yourself, then you can have some fun. I am sure the GP9 will look similar, as it will use the same motor. You can always drop some hard earned jack towards some AZL stuff to get a better appearance, but the MTL stuff is for the masses. I have 12 GP35's now. I only have 11 AZL's The track is code 60 because Marklin started it with code 60 a long time ago, and set the standard. I would rather have code 40, but the modular standard is code 60, so that's what I use for my modules. For the home layout I want to build, I plan code 40. MTL is less secretive with Z because they like the feedback to gauge interest in their projects. It helps spread the hype, and gets people to buy enough of each new product released to pay for that project, so we can get more projects sooner. Z Scalers, being a very small group, have found that by sticking together as a group, and being very vocal about our hobby, we can accomplish the same things modelers in the larger scales can do. We have even had Z Scale conventions now! I have been watching, and there are lots of N Scalers waiting to flip to Z, waiting for just enough stuff that interests them to become available. The N Scalers got into N because it was the smallest scale they thought they could model in, but now that there is some North American Z Scale coming out, N Scalers are dabbling more and more. Pretty soon, you will find your N Scale collection boxed up and stored in the attic, as you get more involved in Z.
Good questions. I think I can help a little. More modern is the driving force behind Z today. First, you are on the right track with MTL. You have their GP35s and their new 50' boxes. Both are great! They also offer Gunderson double stacks. These are a must! Tim, do you have any of these, LOL! AZL is the THE leader for modern motive power. Most of their offerings have been in brass. But, their SD70s are economical and very highly detailed. They are actually a hybrid brass and injection locomotive. AZL is also preparing to release GP7s. It will be interesting to compare AZL's GP7 to MTL's GP9. AZL also has some modern passenger equipment. They offer F59PHIs with Bombardier cars and California cars including Surfliners! AZL is also planning to offer coal porters and auto racks in the next 12 months. The coal porters are lost, but AZL is still hoping to release a set before the end of the year. Full Throttle has extremely nice cylindrical hoppers. Again, a must have! Pennzee has offered three bay hoppers. Full Throttle has leased the molds and has offered their own three bays recently. Alan Curtis Models offers kits for spine cars and 89' flats. The spine cars are a personal favorite. Of course we can't forget about our own Robert Ray. He has produced laser cut wood kits for center beams and wood chip hoppers (on the modern side) as well as two bay covered hoppers and cabooses. FR in Germany has offered beth gons, wood chip hoppers, Gunderson double stacks and even F40 locomotives. Their most popular release of lately is their PS2-cd hoppers. Note, most of these items are brass but way cool! Finally, Mark 4 Design has offered kits for waffle cars and rib sided box cars. Searails is also working on Whale Belly tank cars. Did I miss anyone? MTL has also announced a 50' modern boxcar with plug door. It will be available this December. Of course, we expect even more new modern releases and choices from all of these folks! Rob Kluz
Kurt Luecks tank cars, Robert Ray's 65' gondolas and bulkhead flatcars (for modern) and GSC 53' flat and retrofit frames for Marklin tank cars. PennZee and Father nature reefers. Both MTL and Mark4Design have at least 3 or 4 more pieces of rolling stock coming over the next year or so. AZL hopefully will do more after successful release of the CoalPorters and Autoracks. Oh, and Rob, you forgot to mention the ZTrack cast resin well/transformer car. Randy
The N scale market is much more competative. Quite often, the first manufacturer to release a product will sell more. I know of a couple of stories where two manufacturers were working on the same project, one of them found out, and upped their production date to hit the market first. I think MT was burned on this at least once by pre-announcing a locomotive release. In Z, at least for now, there is plenty of opportunity for new car types, and the more types available, the better it is for everybody. The manufacturers have seemed to stay out of eachothers way (referring to MT, AZL, PennZee, Uncle Will for US proto only). The closest thing to a conflict thus far has been the announcement of the GP-7/9 by AZL and MT. Which was a project that both companies had too much time invested in to drop out. I think that AZLs decision to go with the 7 shows the manufacturers' understanding that both of them need the other to be strong in order to grow the market. As for the lack of arguing among Z scalers, a lot of the same reasons. We need eachother. Of course, we don't always agree, and there are disputes, but, if you want information on Z scale, you HAVE to ask a Z-scaler. We don't have a lot of formal resources or mainstream publications. We are also the "red headed step child" of model railroading. We have to stick together. We still have our divisions, but we're too small for hard-line cliques. We have runners, collectors, modellers, scenery enthusiasts, operations people, who all have different priorities. We have Steam era, transition era and Modern era "conflicts" as well, but they are mostly just sibling rivalries about who the manufacturers are paying more attention to today. I'm sure as the scale attracts more people, these divisions will become more apparent, but for now, we have more to unite us than divide us. Dan S.
1. Ditch the modern stuff and go transition era! Oh wait, then you can't rust them up. 2. Tom may not have an ALPs, but he knows how to design decals. These N scale tankcar decals were made by him with a regular printer: Tom also made all these signs as decals: 3. Because they don't care, just like with ride height and all other incorrect N scale offerings. 4. Isn't the GP9 gonna fit on the same GP35 chassis? If so then yes it will be w-i-d-e. 5. Code 55 track doesn't bother me nearly as much as the molded roadbed under it. Oh and if you haven't checked yet their flextrack only comes in 12" lengths!!!!!!!!!!! crazy 6. I think it's just because Joe belongs to the Yahoo group so he lets things out. 7. I'm trying to change all that.......Just kidding : )
I'm pretty sure it was posted over at Yahoo. All the modern people complained about the GP9 and Joe said they did it because they could use the same chassis as the GP35. If the prototype wheel base is different then this would be wrong on the model. Time will tell I guess. I'm still betting that the ATL GP7 will be a much better model. Just a guess though.
i think the length of a GP-35 and GP-9 is within 9" or so, but the truck centers may be different. i have all that someplace, but i'm not where i can get to it. when the hood width of necessity (for MTL) has to be a bit wide, 1/32" in total length is hardly worth sweating. i, too, think the AZL will be the more accurate in length/width/etc, but MTL will be affordable and MU with the GP35s better (i would expect). so if i'm going to bash the shell (and don't you know there are lots of things one can do) the MTL price will be the better value. one i did in N scale is a favorite of mine, it's a Morrison Knudsen rebuild of a GP20 with chopped nose and a cab that looks just like a new GP35 (or like) called a TE-50-4s. i don't need it, but i just love it! a GP9 would sorely tempt me to do it again in Z. here are two links that show it: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=144898&PHPSESSID=6d42a6a5cd5645933ae5d5201e38da2c http://www.derbysulzers.com/MK5001.jpg dave f.
If I bought one: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/loco/erie1217.jpg http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/loco/erie1225g.jpg http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/loco/erie1221w.jpg MT GP35's are about $120-150. The ATL's will possibly be around $200. Thats not bad to me. I personally think $140 for the MT is a rip off and $215 for a correct ATL is a deal.
I think if AZL gets all the right proportions and it is 200 vs. 140 for the MT, for the extra money, I'll go AZL.
By the way I think we don't complain that much because, there is not enough prototyipical equipment out there to make people get picky. Basically you take what you can get. I'd imagine if after 10 years we have a bunch of great prototyicially correct models, we'd be more inclined to complain. It is natural really. Once the bar is set high you don't like going back. However, just about everything in Z is a first, so there is little to complain about. We are just happy to get it. At least I am, and so are many others!
Actually, the 9 is 55'11" coupler to coupler, the 35 is 56'2", so just over .012". And the center to center truck spacing is 31' on the 9 and 32' on the 35. But, MT's 35 is slightly shorter (I'm guessing to allow for the truck mounted couplers), so 31' would be about right. I'm not sure, but I think Joe said that they were going to use the same motor and drive parts, I'm not sure about the chassis halves themselves. I've paid less than $125 for most of my GP-35s, and the SD-70's that I have seen have been between $215 and $230, so, I can get 3 GP35s for well under the price of 2 SD-70s. Don't get me wrong, I love the AZL, and if it had been an SD-7 or even an SD-40, I would have snagged a couple, and if the GP7 comes out in my road, I'll get at least a couple of them. But, for just over half the price, I can live with the extra .053" of width, as long as it runs well. I just can't wait for a nice little fleet of GP 7s and 9s. Finally, hood units that are actually from my era. Now, Where are those ALCOs? Dan S.
Dan, Is the MT GP35's hood really only .053" wider than the prototype? I have no idea, but my digital calipers were sitting here at the computer and .053" isn't much at all, but when I see the model I can quickly tell it has too wide a hood. The first time there were photo's of the GP35 (they showed it in a light red primer color) I could tell the hoods were wide and they didn't show a front or top view, it was the side and I could still see it. Anyways I just wondered if such a big visual difference is really so small (.053") If so that just proves my point that no matter how small the dimensions are off, it looks out of proportion.
Guys, let's talk serious about proportion. First no matter what Track you use you'r out of proportion (exept handlaid code 40 maybe). Almost all Märklin Rolling Stock is out of proportion incl. Wheels. Almost all Structures from Faller, Kibri, Vollmer and more are to big or to rough. I can understand that MTL want's the same base for the GP9 as they use on the GP35 because of the cost. If AZL has better proportion on there GP7 that's fine because they are a small manufactor. So let's wait until they release there Geep's to find the difference.
