z scale thoughts

C'mon Chris, start hacking away. It didn't stop the real modelers back in the 80's from cutting apart wide body Athearn HO diesels and rebuilding them to prototype dimensions. Why should Z have to skip that decade? ;-)

 

Here is an easy 'just for looks' test. For those who have booth the AZL SD70 and a MTL GP35, compare them. Couple them together and look straight down the locos. The MTL GP35 is wider. I think the issue is that the complete shell including the cab of the GP35 is wide. For instance, the cab windows facing towards the long hood of the GP35 about twice as wide as the same windows on the SD70.

For those with calipers, what is the width of the SD70 body compared to the GP35? I dont have calipers so I can't tell you.

AZL used brass sides on the SD70 to achieve better accuracy. This is a feature you will find on the AZL GP7s as well.

Rob

 

I know Ajin is progressing on the design, but I am not sure when we can expect a sample. Sorry, I wish I had more information.

Rob

 

I don't know about the SD70, but some different SD45s had different cab widths. So, make sure we're comparing a 10'4" cab to a 10' cab, not a 9'x" cab. The MT is about 11'4" so it's already off by a foot.
Dan S

 

"C'mon Chris, start hacking away"

The shell isn't the hard(est) part, but as you know I have no use for a GP35. Primer Grey...yuck. (EL)

Dan,
Perhaps the cab being wide helps to throw the whole look off.

 

Hi Robert:

After our quick chat today over on zcentral, i finally got around to joining traniboard. you mentioned that you had a posting over here about putting a decoder in a SD70 from AZL. as i am just planning my next layout with DCC and a NA roadname, i may wait and see what AZL offers as a drop in decoder in the next few months.

With that said, i still want to read your artical, and continue my education into the world of DCC.

What type of DCC are you running, i thinck you said NSC or something? thus far i have looked into the digitrix and lenz setups. with my next layout, i plan to spend a year or so working on a very bad-ass digital comand system that i hope to run wirelessly from my laptop. both lenz and digitrix offfer this option, who about yours?

If it is not a bother to you, i am eagerly looking for new freinds in the Z comunity to help with these types of questions. i live in Utah and though i am surrounded by a ton of fully functionals real life railroads (all UP except for the local coal lines down south) i have no Z modeleres to talk with, and compair notes.

Tony B...
AKA Zmon

 

GP35 and SD70M

I'm just catching up on threads now, but I was going to say the same thing. Folks here are cutting up everything else in Z, if the hood width is that offensive, cut it and slim it down.

My issue with the SD70M is that it won't run MU'd with anything else in Z scale and no drop-in decoders are available for it yet. While the SD70M is a fantastic model, I still think the GP35 is a better value considering that with some units selling on EBAY now for $116, that's almost two for the price of one. Is that little brass insert on each side of the SD70M really worth $50 each?

My GP35's are perfectly speed matched to each other, to MTL F7's AND almost matched to other AZL brass hood units. Being able to MU the loco is worth more to me than 1 scale foot in dimension.

Besides, at Z-Bend Track module standard height of 50" to the top of the rail, I'm not looking at the top, I'm looking at the sides of the loco. I can live with that. Do I hope that MTL might correct it in future models? Sure. Will it happen? Probably not.

If it bothers me that much, I'll cut it and slim it down.

In the end, both the GP35 and the SD70M have design compromises and neither is perfect so we have to live with what we've got.

Randy

 

Randy,

Come on, is the brass plate the only difference between the GP35 and SD70? We are comparing apples to oranges here. Your $50 gets you prototypical specific details (ie SD70M versus SD75i), traction tires, pad printed windshield wipers, sun shades, snow plow, sprue of details, two extra axles, extra coupler and more!

To be more realistic, add on the cost of a BLMA detail set to the cost of the GP35. Even then it is still does not have all of the details and options the SD70 has. I am not knocking the GP35 since I think it is great. Just when it comes to details, $50 gets you much, much more than just a prototypical width shell. Let's not minimize what AZL has done with their release.

Rob

 

According to "A Field Guide to Trains" (Gerald Forster), Peterson Field Guides, The Geeps 9/18/20/30 and 35 have the same length / wheelbase. Only the /7 is a little shorter.

Dominique

 

Good points, Rob. Touche'

The brass plates in the hood sides aren't the only differences, BUT that IS what you and other folks keep mentioning.

I still want AZL's for MTL prices, even if it is an apples to oranges comparison. ;-)

Seriously though, just as some folks couldn't buy the AZL brass because it was more expensive than the injection molded stuff (even if that was just F7's and Marklin at the time), some folks won't be able to buy AZL $200-$225 locos versus even $150 MTL locos. While for many of us it is not a big difference, it is still a serious difference to others.

Now, of course, AZL could remedy the problem of the SD70M not speed matching anything else in Z scale by releasing more different kinds of locos than the SD70M's and SD75i's (at least give us some flares and standard cabs) and then I'll stop complaining about that, too. ;-)

Yes, the GP7 has been shown in at least one photo MU'd with an SD70M, but it IS an unusual occurance, so that's not what I'm looking to MU with these.

Alternately, I can spend the equivalent of a couple of AZL locos on a DCC system and decorders for all my other trains (and forego buying two more AZL's) and try to find someone willing to convert my Dash 9 to DCC (Rob A. said he won't do another one of these).

Randy

 

I'll take both !!! I love the shorter GP's but also the longer SD's. Now, a few commercial RS/SW yard switchers and some more variations to the longer ones.

Rob, when DCC shows up in the SD's, I'll be ordering more (in addition to the ones that I already own and have put in the 'kit bashed' decoders). GP-7's too. I can put in my own decoders but I tell you: drop in or preinstalled - is a no-brainer. Anything to save me time. And I could care less about 10' or 10'4", just make something different to add to my collection

 

Chris, you're the first person of my knowledge having something to argue against the MTL Geep35....Myself, the only device I don't fully enjoy is the lack of a pilot at both ends, and a lack of a snowplow. Easy to solve with a little scratchbuilding I guess.

But for all the remaining, I find this engine more than perfect. Good details, strong manufacturing, and awesome performances and running characteristics.

At least for the 3 samples I'm owning.

Dominique

 

Well I don't really want to harp on this and I know it comes out sounding like complaining.

First from my point of view:
I model the Erie Railroad, so any prototype after 1960 is of no use to me, but F7's and GP7/9's are of use to me. Erie didn't MU them together, nore will I.

Second I will always pick the better model if I have a choice between two.

There is nothing magical about the brass insert on the AZL locomotive, but being made of brass that area (where the motor is) can be very thin. It could be made out of paper mache as long as it held up and let the motor fit. You can only make plastic so thin before it can't support itself. All that fancy brass plate does it let the hood be narrow and still be very thin at the motor.


My biggest disappointment about the width of the MT GP35 is that it is a recent design, not some 20 year old relic that needs updating. It's a brand new model that already needs updated!!!

I'm not a rich guy with money laying around, but I will spend the little I have on good models. I doubt I will ever by a locomotive in any scale for $500 even if it was a "must have" I just don't think the hobby is worth that much to me. Hypothetically speaking let say I have a choice between a wide body MT GP9 for $150 and a narrow brass GP7 for $450 I would buy the MT and live with it.


The big pilot opening was mentioned, why would MT do that? There are ways to get a body mounted coupler to work and still go around sharp curves. I think this decision comes from the same minds of people who are no longer designing rolling stock with body mounts.

Can I thin down a GP35 hood? maybe I could, but what do I do about the metal frame under it???

Anyways I don't want to argue. If you need a GP35 there are no other choices. If I needed one I would buy it too. There are those pilot conversion done by Robert not to mention his GP30 and other kit bashes. Plus I've seen them detailed up with etched fans and other items. I've been shown they can be turned into great looking models.

 

Z thoughts

Thanks Robert; i'll read this now. Its fun to talk with the same folks from zcentral. thatks again.:angel:

 

When we consider MTL GP35 width...AZL brass hood units suffer from the same problem: the hood is widened compared to prototype computations, in order to host the Faulhaber 8mm motor. Myself I'm BTW always looking for what's wrong on locos and rolling stock....But on AZL brass locos, I did never noticed the extra wide hood before Hans Riddervold himself made me notice it....

So then, when looking at the Geep 35, OK, it appears that the hood has the same extra width than AZL' s brass...And to my eyes it's not a problem (even for the lack of pilot and snowplow) as my Geeps run embedded within AZL brass hood units as all have the good idea to have matched speeds as said above.

For the SD70 and their speed difference, it's another problem...Maybe AZL wanted to force the sells, as myself I'm now owning 3 of them where initially I wanted only one or two in order to operate them in a Dash9-SD40-SD45-GP35 lashup!:shade:

Dom