Ztrack Magazine has commissioned Micro-Trains Line to produce an exclusive two car set of Detroit, Toledo & Ironton (DT&I) 50' rib side boxcars. This prototypical set is being released in conjunction with the Detroit NTS being held at the end of July. Only 150 sets are being offered. Car #18848 is light boxcar red and has a reefer orange door. The lettering is white with a white and reefer orange herald. The car was built in 1972 and assigned to carry heavy castings for the automotive industry. Car #16918 is boxcar red with white lettering and a black and white herald. The car was built in 1973 and assigned to carry food. This 2-car set is $67.50, plus shipping and handling. We are limiting sets to one per customer. Additional sets may be requested. Orders for additional sets will be filled on a first come basis after the 2007 National Train Show (NTS) in Detroit, July 2007. To order your set, please see the insert in the May/June issue of Ztrack Magazine. You may also order online at: http://www.ztrack.com/imprint/imprint.html Rob Kluz
Way too new for me, but I like that each boxcar is different. I hate sets with say 5 of the exact same car so this is good to see.
We have a DT&I update... we are sold out! Okay, only kidding. But they are going fast! I wanted to let everyone know that you do NOT have to be a Ztrack subscriber to order these sets. They are open to everyone. Second, I found that our online order system is quoting shipping and handling charges higher than what they should be. We are adjusting the costs here in the office. The actual shipping cost is $11.00 domestic, not $14.00. For international, we are taking $8.00 off. The international charge is $20.00. The first sets are going in the mail tomorrow. I want everyone to take note of the printing of these cars. The star logo is very complicated. MTL did an unbelievable job to print these logos across the ribs of the car. Good job MTL! Rob
Here are the prototype photos of the two cars: and For DT&I fans, this is a great resource site! http://dti.railfan.net/ Rob
Mike, I am not sure what you mean by prototype fidelity. I think Micro-Trains did an absolutely fabulous job with this run. It far exceeded my expectations and truly captured the prototypes. Rob
I got mine yesterday, and they look great. The lettering is super crisp, and the star has perfect registration. I'm really happy with my set!
They do capture the essence of the prototype, in that they are 50' external post box cars. But, you chose two completely different prototype boxcars, neither of which is a match for the MTL body. "Prototypical" probably has a fuzzy definition in that all models are somewhat inaccurate. Is this run close enough for most? Sure, it probably will be. Is it faithful enough to the prototype that it can be called a prototypical model? No. Another minor point would be that the DT&I logo is painted on a placard on the prototypes, so they didn't have to paint around the ribs. Praising MTL for printing around the ribs so well, when that doesn't match the prototype, is somewhat misguided as well.
DT&I Oye...! I guess you've never tried to print over a rib like that? Pretty spectacular from our point of view. ) There seems to be two camps. Those who demand absolute accuracy and those who less demanding and smile a lot. The first will always be frustrated, the other one having fun. Sure, they aren't the actual prototype cars, but in a general sense fit the bill. I suspect being one of the realistic types when I'm not wearing my MTL Lab Coat and offical Pocket Protecter allows me the ability to appreciate the fact that we have a couple of cool 50' cars made up in DT&I. Even in N Scale were we have over 106 body styles, if we were to keep to the guidelines of acceptable prototypical restrictions that concern you, most modelers would never have cars marked in their road names. We can split hairs on what's "prototypical" or obvious structural differences, or we can strive to do the best we can with what we have and offer Road Names that help folks realize their dream layouts. I agree with Rob, these are beautiful cars and I know tons of folks out there are happy to add these cars to their fleet. I have a bunch of SP Cars, frankly most of them are not "prototypical"...but damn, they look pretty good in a staging yard and I can't remember the last time someone called me on their accuracy...."them's fightin' words" Have a great 4th Joe
Well we are back from the NTS. It was an interesting show. The DT&I sets were very popular. It was great seeing this set on Mister Dave's layout! We are pleased to announce that we do have a number of these sets available and we are lifting the one set per customer restriction. If you would like to order a set, please visit: http://www.ztrack.com/imprint/imprint.html We will be discounting the shipping cost for US, Canada and International from that quoted on our online ordering system. Coming this December, Ztrack will have another special run from Micro-Trains. Stay tuned! Rob
Just saw this now, so my reply is a little late! Joe, MTL has the best painting and printing in the industry, hands down. I don't know that anyone would be dumb enough to argue that. There is a misnomer that "Prototype Modelers" and "Rivet Counters" take things too seriously and arn't having fun. Things couldn't be further from the truth. We have tons of fun doing what we do too. The fun just comes in different ways. This is similar to the on-going debates about Tony Koester/Bill Darnaby hard core operators vs roundy-round runners. Many people say, "Oh, too many rules and it's too much like real work, that would never be fun for me." And they are probably correct, maybe they never would enjoy it. But for those that are really into operations, it's fun to follow the rules! It's fun to treat running trains like it was a real job. It doesn't make either camp wrong, and it certainly doesn't mean either group is "eternally frustrated." You make the arguement that modelers wouldn't get their favorite roadname ever, if MTL didn't take liberties. I'd like to counter that. First, the NP geeps MTL just released. I read a review (Model Train News?) that said MTL used a number series on the NP that didn't have dynamic brakes, yet the model does have dynamics. The kicker is, that NP did own geeps with dynamic brakes! MTL just didn't use the right numbers. You say, "We can split hairs on what's "prototypical" or obvious structural differences, or we can strive to do the best we can with what we have and offer Road Names that help folks realize their dream layouts." Would it have cost any more to use the right number series on the NP geeps? Was using the wrong number really "striving to do the best with what's available"? The N and Z scale RI 40' boxcars in pullman green are another example. MTL put a non-Pullman Standard built number series on their PS1 boxcar body. Yet RI also had a number series that is almost a perfect match for the PS1, with the exact same paint scheme. Doing it right satisfies both the everyday modeler and the prototype modeler. Doing it wrong only satisfies the every day modeler. Why leave out a portion of the customer base, when doing it right doesn't cost any more? Im certainly not arguing that the DT&I boxcars shouldn't have been released. I just commented on the term "prototypically correct" being thrown around. So the above is based on the "eternally frustrated" and "doing it right leaves people out" comments only. And I like you too, Joe. This is just comments about the product, not you or anyone else at MTL on a personal basis!
Mike, Your right about the markings, sometimes we are bound by Special Run customers that reserve a style or a scheme and we have to work around that. It's possible a mistake was made, when you are processing 9 different paint schemes on 9 different body styles each month, things get confused. Not an excuse, but it just happens dispite our best efforts to make 100%. As for the NP GP's not sure where the breakdown was on that after the hand off, but I've requested we stick to actual photographs of cars or loco's when we do a color scheme. We've had a change in the process around here and new folks are learning new jobs and sometimes things slip. I was surprised to see that as well, may have been my mistake so I'm more than willing to take the credit for that mess up. As for Prototype vs Roundy Rounds, your right, big difference in levels of tolerance. Difficult to feed both though because there's a cost offset that is complicated. As an example, those DT&I box cars needed placards, but to produce them that way would have resulted in $100 cars since we don't make those parts now. New tooling, additional assembly and painting, new nests, new 8-digit numbers and on and on. I am amazed after all these years how much a very slight change can cost down the line...but it's there. Me...I'm someplace in the middle. I would love to be prototypical on everything I do, but have become a 3' modeler cause that's as close as I can focus without glasses! Sorry I didn't get a chance to meet you at the show, some folks on this board say you have two heads and 6 arms, but didn't see anyone fitting that discription! ) Cheers Joe PS..I don't take any of this personal, just a job and the day folks stop challenging what and how you do something is the day you gotta start getting concerned.
Well, I know at least one place where NP Geep numbers were and weren't with dynamic brakes, vis a vis MTL's choices, was mentioned... :embarassed: (I do try to tell it like it is, if I can find out "like it is", that is...) [broken record] I am not referring to anyone here, let's get that straight, but there is a not so fine line between considered, constructive criticism and premeditated, spiteful mockery of manufacturers, models and modelers. This has gone so far as to have anti-(fill in) comments inserted into threads that have nothing to do with (fill in). Hiding behind the First Amendment or claiming that "it's just humor" does not, in my opinion, make it right, and shows this hobby very poorly to potential entrants. "It's all just in fun?" No, it's not. [/broken record]
Only 5 arms, so no wonder you missed me! I did walk by the MTL booth a couple times, even shot some photos of the new drop-bottom gon, but didn't catch you there. I had figured you didn't make it to the show. Wow, $100 would be quite excessive. Pad printing isn't something I've been involved in, but wouldn't there be some cost reduction just based on the ease of printing on a placard versus printing over the deep ribs on that shell? I assume printing around those ribs is a pain, and requires a few rounds of test printing to make sure the logo isn't distorting at all. If a few different plates have to be etched for the logo along the way, the price starts going up. Or, maybe your boys have it down to a science already and can do it first try, thus negating my counter-argument. I could picture the breakdown leading to something like this: "New Tooling" ~.5 hr of drafting @$60/hr..........$30 ~1,280 placards fit on one 16"x20" sheet of .005" brass at Indiana Micro Etch........$80 (I think that's the price you mentioned from them previously) "Additional Assembly and painting" Assuming that the placard doesn't interfere with your other printing, then there isn't an additional painting step, as they can be mounted prior to painting the body. Assembly, labor to glue two placards per car.... run size was 150 pieces?... so 12.5 hours (1 min per car) @ ~$15/hr?... $187.50 "New nests" This shouldn't be necessary as .005" of brass won't interfere with the current nest. "New 8 digit numbers" Not sure what this means, so you'll have to fill in a price. If this is a part number, don't you assign those for each run anyway? Or are you talking about adding the placards as a separate sale item? "On and on" Well, I'm at $267.50, and thats a conservative estimate (larger than it needs to be, I'm sure). Per car increase is $1.78 So, the real question is, did the printing guys use up $267.50 worth of labor and test printing plates to develop the perfect printing around the ribs? If they did, then the costs would be a wash. If they didn't, then yes, the placard would have made the price for manufacturing the cars go up $2, and add maybe $5 to the retail price of the cars.
