Nano LEDs Chris, I have successfully tried the Nano LEDs, but only 2 will fit in the back of my signal. With the circuit I am using, the green is not bright enough to produce a yellow effect with the red. Thier was no room for a thrid (yellow) nano LED. When I viewed the red/green nano LED thru the signal, the red was on top of the green. Even though the brass tubing was small, you could still tell that the red was on top of the green and the green was on the bottom. If I could find a white diffused LED with the same diameter as the inner diameter of the brass, perhaps the light would transmit forward better. I am experimenting with different sizes of fiber optic cables. I have one that is near the inner diamter of the brass tubing. I am hoping I can get the smaller cable to transmit light thru the larger one. Am working on it now!!!! Will post results later!!! Kim, Thanks for the heads up on the CA glue. I wasn't planning on using any, but definitely not now. I like that E6000 medium viscosity glue. Just bought a new tube to replace the near empty tube I am working on. Armand, I might have to look into getting one of those 12volt SMD soldering irons!!! Thanks for sharing this info!! Have a great day! Hobo Tim p.s. Does anyone know the best way to polish the ends of fiber optics????
p.s. Does anyone know the best way to polish the ends of fiber optics???? Tim, A heat source will smooth the end of the optic fiber like nothing else. This delivers a two fold benefit by polishing the end and and making it convex which has the same effect as a lens thus magnifying the light. Steve F
Hello, I just cut the end with small sharp cutter pliers, it is breaking very easy and with no cracks. For the SMD Led's I agree with Tim, the red is much more bright, so necessary to put larger resistor on this to equilibrate the yellow-orange colour. The Led's used in the signal was a 0603 with 2 colours from Conrad, Everlight. This could also be thin enough to put as piggy bag.
I'm glad a I missed a day's worht of posts because I can read a great summary in a day !!! Tim, great looking and the correct heigh compared to using the NJ Internationals which are close. Why don't you use a single Red/Green 0402 (or larger 06) behind the target??? That way, you get all three colors from a single LED? Put a diffuser in front to spread it out if you want (rice or waxed paper, plastic films from office or art supply or, frosted window treatment (large sq footage roll but very thin, available from Home Depot). Solder on the cat hair red / green enamel wire from Ngineering. BTW: you don't have to solder the wire onto the SMD, you can cold weld it. Also, if you do solder, you don't have to strip the enamel, just heat the end and simultaneously apply solder to tin it. Place on LED and reheat. Drop the wires from the LED down the tube. Any tube size the wire is extremely small.
Hello Jeff, For the moment I didnt find 0402 Led's Bicolor or even Golden-white on this side from the big water ;-) If you have a source where to find this, that could effectly make the thing easier.
No Such Luck!! Have yet to find any company that makes nano "0402" bi-color LEDs yet. Too small. I do have the 0603 SMD bi-color LEDs, but they are too large to put in the back of the Target. I may try again though. I need to wire them criss-cross so they will work with the circuit I am using. Very difficult due to the size. Super small. I may still go this route if the fiber optics do not work right!!! Jeffrey White came over today and we talked about the type of signals and circuits I am going to use. We even brainstormed on the signals at turnouts and such. I showed him the pros & cons of all the LEDs I have. He thinks I have a great thing going with the signals!! Will be nice to see them in action on a module in the future!! Stay posted for updates!!!! Hobo Tim
If I got as far as soldering the wires I would of known they didn't look right lit up ; ) Maybe I'll just buy from you?
Tim-are you planning on grounding the ground terminal of the LED to the brass body of the signal to reduce the number of wires traveling through the tube? This all has me intrigued!! I'm about to enter the planning stages for my layout and I want to consider my electrical options, etc. as well as signals and such. Great work as usual! Michael Michael
Just to throw an older idea, On all the 0603 it is possible to grind down the front part to make them round lense, with a hollow metallic tube. The limit is just the bond wire, but unlike james, they never live twice :teeth: The Viessmann signals are build on a small pcb-board, 0,5mm. Somebody from friends was already projecting to make target from pcb and also edge the circuit on it, for the Led(s). If you put the Led rounded through the middle hole, it dissappear mostly, is easy to solder to the board, same for the wires. Biggest question is the tool to punch out the edged targets. Hi Tim, There is another problem with the circuit, you can not choose different resistors for the green/red separately. So it could be impossible to adjust the yellow colour, and near the target there is no place for resistor. But sure there is possibility to modify the circuit.
The bi-color LEDs are normally intensity matched but it is very easy to balance the intensities using either back-to-back diodes with selected resistors in each leg or, driven from an op-amp with an offset pot to control the effective voltage swing. All of the diodes I have used (T1 sizes) have balanced specs. The same has to be true for the SMDs as they are made from the same die. If the Red/Green is sooooo out of balance, you can control the variance somewhat by changing the duty cycle. I'll try and attach a couple of example drawings. One does not have to solder the wires to the LED's. The common <5ma current can easily be achieved with conductive paint.
Can-Can't DO Why I like this Circuit! I want APPROACH LIGHTING on my module/layout. The circuit below is a single block circuit. If it is used by itself it will not have approach lighting, but when combined with 3 more resistors, 3 diodes, and a transistor, it creates approach lighting. This I like!!! Now, look at the LED in this circuit!!! This type of LED is not an SMD for they don't make this type yet. It is a typical looking LED with two (2) leads only. When you apply posivite to one lead and negative to the other, you get red. When you reverse the positive/negative, you get green. If you apply the power in a fast alternating fashion, the color is an Amber/Yellow color. This circuit works only with this type of two lead bi-color LED. --------------------- The other Target circuit that this website shows has no way to produce APPROACH LIGHTING. Therefore I do not want to use this circuit, but this circuit uses the bi-color LED with three (3) leads. The center lead is the ground (Cathode) and each color, red & green, has it's seperate power lead. No Approach Lighting. The third Signal is the three light type, just like Union Pacific uses. One red, one yellow, and one green LED. This circuit also has the capability for APPROACH LIGHTING. ---------------------- Now adding diodes or resistors, neither will work for the circuit I am using for Approach Lighting. The LED will not allow it. Need that ability of Alternating Current to produce the Amber/Yellow!!! =========================================== Now, who is interested in having Operational Signals on their Layout/Modules??????? Which type most interests you? What do you want, Approach Lighting or Not? Things to think about!! Hobo Tim
Hi Tim, Approach light is for me also important, and like I have some signals lying around I will also need such circuit. This one is a little complicated because it makes oszilliations to drive this special type of Led, for this need the 556. I dont like so much when it is not absolutly necessary, because it can disturb other devices on the layout. I will in the next days design something simpler just with logic IC's. It should be free to use common +, common - or like you want best.
Limiting factors OK, the circuit works. You have a 3 color target block signal. What will determine the size (length) of the blocks? What if you want to run 6' long trains and your block signals are only 4' apart (average module length)? What happens within the circuit when an overlap occurs? Will the circuit+LED be a separate component that you can place under the module(s) at any location and then "plug in" the target (fiber optic) mast through a small hole in the layout? To adopt a system with a standard interface for Z-bend would be nice. But the problem with any signal system is getting people to agree. The steam guy wants semaphores, the east coast guy wants targets the west coaster wants deluxe... I guess you should build to suit yourself and if people are impressed and like the end result then you go from there. So just go Tim, you da man I'm doing too much thinking and not enough modeling. Steve F
Mine!!!! I will not use the "current Sensing" detector! What I will use is phototransistors arranged throughout the block to sense what block is occupied. At least this is the suggestion of Mr. Paisley, the signal circuit website owner. This way the signal electronics are totally separate from the track voltage. My system can be used on DC and DCC track. I am still a DC guy and don't see DCC for a year or two. So, even after I change to DCC, the signals will remain "Unaffected"!. How long are the blocks? This is a good question. Depends on the scenery and track layout. Could be 6', could be 12'. Being that Jeffrey White and I are making special modules, they will not be Z-Bend, but will have a Z-Bend compatible attachment when needed. If a block extends into another module, their will be a wire connection between modules. And, that module was meant to be attached to each other. I am still working on specifics in my mind as to how and what I want in signals. But it is all GOOD!!!! Hobo Tim
Mine will be wired some with blocks, some only to turnouts. Since we run a lot of turnouts, I'll have some stationed nearby to indicate points. But since we're not down that low to see a normal target viewing angle, we'll likely still look at the points. Still, makes for an intersting effect if some one is taking a pix and one remotes the turnout. On some stretches, block control could be used. There, one puts an optical detector at the beginning and end of the block. As the train enters, that signal turns red. As the train reaches the end of that block, it remains red and the next block now goes red. As the last car clears the block we've been talking about, it enables the prior block (the first signal to turn red) to now turn green or yellow, depending on your signal preferences. The simple detector at the begining and end of each block has worked for me in the past. Where the blocks overlap, they share a common detector.
Hi Tim, This should be a replacement circuit for the Paisley design. Just pure logic with an 8channel Multiplexer IC for each block. All 4052 versions except the "HC" with only 6Volt should be good, and allow up to 18Volt Vcc. This circuit is much smaller and allow common +, what is also the Viessmann standard, and the concept from my signals. Common - is possible with the same chips, just would need some inverter. It is always more easy to switch the ground. The diodes should be common 1N914, 1N4148 aso. This circuit here I made quick over lunch, therefore it is still untested, so errors are possible. The circuit follows the thruth table and block design from Paisley.
Fan-Freakin-Tastic!!! Wow!!! You Da' Man!!! Armand, do you plan on building a few to test??????????? If so, please let us know the outcome!!!!! Hobo Tim
There you go Armand. Plain and simple. We say: KISS Keep it simple, stupid. Years ago, this was emulated with nothing more than a few transistors with more diodes. Thanks for the post.
What is the reason the Integrate Signal Systems boards and TracTronics boards are being ignored? Cost?
Hi Tim, Hi Mike, First, I made update, some diodes went wrong, better to think before lunch :beer: I have also no chips here to try in the next days. But can be that I find it in a nearby shop. This IC's are used a lot, but not so much in hobby applications. So I will test it, perhaps better wait before to order 1000 pieces :teeth: I hope that the output will stand to drive the 2 LED's in the yellow phase. If the bug become hot, perhaps one transistor should be needed, or another multiplexer chip, we will see. If everything is OK, I will also make a board layout. So there will be time to finish the signal hardware. :cake: The 4051-4053 serie are analog multiplexer. Means that they react as relays. You can switch X to VCC, and the LED's to ground, to make common - with the same circuit. Unlike I was writing before, you need no additional inverters. If you want, I can change you on the last version. But on my opinion common + is more suitable, most control devices switch to ground to turn on. Mike, I can not use both because they drive the Led's on a different way. -The Integrate Signal System board switch the + and wait for a common -, I have on my signals common + so I can not use it. But also an argument to make such signals. -The Tractronics board is configurated for the inverted Bi-Led used also in the Paisley design. Live is not easy
